So what you are saying if given a choice the Palestinians would absolutely distance themselves from the Hamas and not support and cheer their activities as they showed on Oct 7 ? Sorry But these innocent civilians showed the ugly side of that on video …o yea don’t forget the innocent UNRWA Gazan employees as well…all innocent well..oops A senior Israeli official said the Shin Bet and Israeli military intelligence provided information that pointed to the active participation of UNRWA staffers and the use of the agency's vehicles and facilities during the Oct. 7 Hamas attack. "This was strong and corroborated intelligence," the official said. "A lot of the intelligence is a result of interrogations of militants who were arrested during the Oct. 7 attack." State of play: UNRWA chief Philippe Lazzarini said he has terminated the contracts of the accused staff members and launched an investigation to "establish the truth without delay." "Any UNRWA employee who was involved in acts of terror will be held accountable, including through criminal prosecution," Lazzarini said @FranchiseBlade - my proposal is Palestine can exist BUT only as a demilitarized territory thru checks and verification. Oct 7 changed any sovereignty counters , let’s have re-education camps , maybe bring in some PRIDE cross dressing teachers from the USA for all I care, let’s see how that goes
@FranchiseBlade would characterize this as a “innocent lie” because NOT all the Hamas members knows where the real innocent civilians are located Take a look at the picture FB, these are the real innocent people. They didn’t cheer civilians being dragged into Gaza…the Palestinian civilians did, they didn’t embed with UNRWA and allowed vehicles and facilities to be used …We had a nice cease fire prior to October. 7 O yea I checked Hamas' 1988 founding charter calls for Israel's destruction and it refuses to recognize Israel. <~~~~ that is what the Palestinians voted for. I’m sorry but those that support Hamas , I have zero sympathy for. I regret the children of Hamas supporters dying to some extent but honestly not really
Any solution needs to address the injustices being committed by Hamas, other Palestinian militant terrorist groups or individuals as the discrimination, brutality, occupation, murder, and crimes by Israel. Unless all of those issues are addressed and Palestinians have an autonomous viable state that is willing to co-exist with Israel, Israel won't have greater security. They will still be in violation of international law, Palestinians will never be able to provide for themselves or have a real opportunity to prosper or achieve self-sufficiency. You are making the grave error of watching selectively edited videos which at most show a few hundred people and then applying that to nearly the entire population. You also presume that watching this gives a full understanding and knowledge of what is occurring on the ground there. The videos are put forward by people on both sides of this conflict. These videos are designed to elicit an emotional response, and to dehumanize an entire population for the purpose of justifying collective punishment.
Hope people didn't read the decision and think otherwise. The UN Court would demand a cease-fire if it deems a genocide is ongoing. Pretty straightforward logic there.
Israeli intel is going through a rough time, and I don't think highly of them anymore. I used to believe Israel had one of the top intelligence agencies in the world. However, after failing to detect a massive threat right in their backyard, I changed my mind.
In 2006, the year they were elected they actually dropped the destruction of Israel from their charter. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel So again, Hamas was promising and more moderate path forward at the time of their election which was only one by a plurality and half the population wasn't even alive or voting age at that time. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/13/john-oliver-on-israel-hamas-war-netanyahu
Here's the issue- Hamas was built on hate and terror and the people of Palestine supported that - so Hamas may have eased off kinda sorta on the wording of the destruction of Israel IF a bunch of other things happened does not match the tone of what was actually happening mere months before and after the election. Plus everyone with half an ounce of a brain could easily connect the dots that the concept of Hamas doesn't suddenly change. Again I am sure that there are Palestinians who now regret Oct 7 as a failed tactic by Hamas - but we sure saw a lot of support in the streets by these civilians as the Hamas terrorists brought back the twisted mangled body as a trophy of sorts - no one in their right mind should support this behavior you said just recently- hey it's only a couple hundred and does not represent the mindset of the remaining 2 million Palestinians... so you think that was in a bad area with unfortunate Hamas supporters? Surely you aren't that dumb? I have no reason to believe that area of town didn't happen to have a couple hundred Hamas supporters and was isolated from the views of other Palestinians - let's not forget when the Russian hostage temporary escaped he was rounded up by not Hamas but by innocent civilians- the fact he was eventually released was only because of his Russian ties again I'm against killing all 2 million Gazans unlike what your Hamas wants to do to Israel- the fact only an estimated 60 to 70 percent of the 24,000 casualties is civilians ( with at least 9,000 dead Hamas is unfortunate but its part of the war when Hamas embeds itself in schools and hospitals or even the UN organization that is suppose to help civilians Hamas ability to throw rockets has been tremendously downgraded- the highest rank leader is in hiding among the hostages -Oct 7 was a tremendous failure for Hamas -
Again... Collective punishment is a war crime. People that voted for Bush or Trump are not deserving of prison or death because of the things those presidents did regarding January 6th or the crimes of the Iraq War. That is true even if now they support sympathetic Xweets about defendents or were supportive of Iraq war.
Who said anything about collective punishment? Not me - I'm about 1. Destroy Hamas -2. Demilitarization of Gaza including border security completely surrounding all areas in a 1 km buffer zone -3. Elimination and banning of all tunnels -4. Reeducation of the Gaza people to retrain their brains ,... then we can have the peace Points 1 and 2 they are in the process of already - points 3 and 4 is my personal views and then once this is accomplished- I'm all about as much aid to the people as necessary
That won't bring peace with those alone. Peace will not be achievable until Gaza has a viable autonomous zone including control of water, a significant part of the Jordan Valley and removing the illegal settlements. Israel will have greater security by going back to the pre-67 borders, moving their troops there to help protect the border, not letting terrorists deter the process when the groups make terrorist attacks. On the Palestinian side: Hamas must be destroyed, they must enforce against future terrorism, find a governing party that isn't terrorist, lacks the corruption of the PA and will work with the international community. The internal community: Must help provide security personnel, resources and aid in setting up the new governing body/elections, provide resources and technology to help. Best chance for peace.
The repeated mistake lies in believing that military containment alone can bring lasting peace. Israel is largely in its current situation because Netanyahu believed that military might itself was good enough. He thought he could contain and control Hamas while denying basic rights and continuing to take away lands from the Palestinian people. Now he thinks he could completely squash Hamas away, and peace would follow. It won't work. The resentment and anger over what the Israeli military is doing to the Palestinian people are sowing the seeds for future Hamas-like organizations. Israel will never be at peace with a military-first and only strategy.
Also to again remind everyone that Netanyahu helped Hamas by allowing cash from Qatar to go to Hamas even as Israel was undermining the Palestinian Authority.
I'm also going to point out that those who support Republicans in Congress blocking a compromise deal on border security are also supporting blocking aid to Israel as that is part of the deal.
Probably your best response in this thread, I think this is fair at least. this is substantial concessions on both sides that likely won't happen - but if it means peace, less death overall - that's great This is about holy land and it's hard to remove the religion out of of it for both sides- I been told by family members that Jews are destined to suffer for denying Jesus Christ but ultimately the Jews would always come out on top .. perhaps to suffer more in perpetuity as it is meant to be - that I don't know about - but I do know there is nothing noble or holy about innocent death even if it's wrong place and wrong time what you suggest honestly will likely never happen because it's huge compromises and trust issues at this point but still a valid thought
Don't also forget who benefit the most from this war. Iran. Israel and Saudi Arabia were working on normalizing their relationship, which could have gone a long way toward a more peaceful Middle East (and a more isolated Iran). Hamas destroyed all of that prospect. Israel's reaction also played a part. I don't know if Iran has a hand in it (so far, no intel agency AFAIK said they did), but they are benefiting from it.
Hey honestly I know reeducation camp sounds very commie PLA -ish but honestly- these people need it - if you or me grew up in a society governed by a terrorist regime, we would probably need it as well lol
I don't know if they are benefiting from it per se- their anti Israel ideology benefits but the people aren't benefiting let's not forget ISIS hates Iran more than the US and Israel but Iran almost tolerates the violence it receives from ISIS- it's a crazy dynamic
