1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Chapter 6: Green & Redemption

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Apr 5, 2023.

  1. MystikArkitect

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,095
    Likes Received:
    22,906
    [​IMG]

    I just can't imagine Ime is looking fondly at **** like this.
     
    NewAge likes this.
  2. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,533
    Likes Received:
    5,757
    Remember the Rafer Alston years? People can be furious at role players. And Alston was far from perfect, but he was more consistent at his role than Jalen has been. I don't even know what Jalen's role is.
     
    NewAge likes this.
  3. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,083
    Likes Received:
    29,507
    Just a thought. What if Jalen is taught to play the KJ role? Cut to the basket for easy dunks. Shoot the occasional 3 when left open.
     
  4. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    35,424
    Likes Received:
    22,560
    He doesn't have the BBIQ to move without the ball. Plus he sucks at finishing cause he is weak.
     
  5. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Tari eason is also incosistent. Cant make a shot under the rim to save his life. He cant facilitate nor can he really penetrate at will.

    He has tenacity and a real knack for getting loose balls and rebounds. Hell of a hustle player.

    These guys are always fan favorites, and maybe my favorite rocket rn. But hes incosistent also.

    Jalen doesnt just chuck bad shots. He is just inefficient af. He takes good looks in the offense and creates good looks for himself, problem is he cant shoot. Those are still good shots in essence just bad results (far too often imo).

    Hus defense isnt a huge liability as most say. I stringently watch his defense. He has lapses, as all young players do, but hes not a sieve out there. He isnt great but he isnt really that bad and thats why he still plays over cam majority of minutes. He rotates pretty well, isnt great at blocking, deflections or stealing, but does ok to get into correct position, which is lost on most fans. Still not good enough but hes improved and continues to.

    Idk where your getting the net rating, because on nba stats hes a -2.1, which is the worst starter tbf.

    His main contribution, is he is the only player besides fred who can facilitate and operate the PnR effectively at all. Its why i have favored a second facilitator, like brogdon, over backup center.

    Jalen is solid at getting Sengun the ball and he creates good looks for himself a LOT of the time. Problem is teams force him to shoot and he misses a lot.

    Amen has this same problem but waaay worse. Hes the only other player on the roster that can operate and run the offense besides fred and Jalen. But he gets zero respect on outside shooting and wont shoot and doesny even produce mid range looks.

    Its also why Fred plays 40mpg, because hes far and away our best option there.

    Jalen has lots of warts but he does positively impact this team whether fans want to ackowledge it or not. Its not enough imo and hes our worst starter but he contributes to both winning and losing.
     
  6. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Not every role player is a 3 and D catch and shooter player. There are many roles to basletball. Some are hustle and defense, Tari. Some are instant scoring, Cam.

    Jalens role is to be a secondary facilitator/PnR ballhandler. He does well in this regard. He creates solid offensive looks.

    Hes also in the 3rd go-to scorer spot, which is were he struggles the most rn because of inability to shoot. He can also penetrate the defense but often gets sloppy with his lack of strength and turnovers.
     
    Carpe82 likes this.
  7. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    20,786
    Likes Received:
    17,333
    He's actually quite slow at cutting. Jalen needs a runway to hit his full speed.
     
    charlieaustin likes this.
  8. Umut

    Umut Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2023
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    157
  9. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,753
    Likes Received:
    17,670
    The frustrating part is that alot of times he's open and ends up finishing like this.
     
    apollo33 and Downtown Sniper like this.
  10. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,083
    Likes Received:
    29,507
    And he sucks only when he's trying to finish in a crowd. Wide open dunking isn't that hard. KJ doesn't strike me as a high IQ player either. I think if he concentrated on doing that, he might be able to do it well enough.
    I don't have any proof one way or the other. But he's advertised as having a quick first step.

    Honestly, I'm getting more and more confused about Jalen.
     
  11. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    This is such a low quality hit piece video. I can go thru each possession and pretty much explain almost all of these.

    Trash video.
     
  12. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,234
    Likes Received:
    143,668
    we are -2.1 with Jalen on, and +5.4 with him off, a difference of +7.5

    Tari Eason is pretty much always a positive when he’s on the court…if his offense isn’t there, he compensates with his defense, hustle, etc to positively impact the game…his defense and hustle is never inconsistent and is always good…he also won’t end up 6-17, 9-24, 8-19 etc if he’s struggling on offense like Jalen often is just compounding the issue of his inefficiency with the amount of shots he takes

    he contributes far more to losing than to winning…I don’t see how the extremely inefficient guy taking 15 shots a game with 27% usage and weak defense averaging barely more assists than turnovers and a bad net rating is contributing to winning

    he is a talented player doing nothing at even a league average level except for getting to the line

    even if somebody’s expectations for Jalen was just a role player, he has been really bad this year
     
    backwardhead likes this.
  13. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Play one, creates contact goes up for shot after what he thought was a foul, didnt get it called. Probably shouldnt expect to get bailed out here so i blame good defense. But it was either go out of bounds or throw up a prayer.

    Play 2 is a blocking foul with lower body contact nearly throughout the entire drive. Again he thought he was fouled and threw it up because he was pushed off balance. Again, you shouldnt expect to be bailed out here. He had the pass to the corner he missed.

    Play 3 was end of shot clock where he had to shoot it. Got blocked. Knew he had to rush another shot, blocked again. Good defense.

    Play 4 he wanted to pass to sengun, great defensive rotation would have forced a turnover there. So he tried to adjust mid air and took an ugly looking shot.

    Play 5 is a clear as day foul where he gets ran into and throws up the shot. Gets called all the time around the league, doesnt get the whistle.

    Play 6 is a mirror image as play 5 and same exact scenario and lack of call.

    Play 7 is just a bad fadeaway shot. Got defended against the badeline well, needed to pull out and reset.

    Dont think play 8 was a bad shot, just a miss.

    Play 9 is a clear foul with the left arm as hes bringing the ball up to shoot.

    Clear hook on play 10. Should be a foul called on the floor with no shot make or miss.

    Play 11 he again is hoping to be bailed out as he felt contact and didnt get the whistle. Needs to stop expecting these calls.

    Play 12 he shpuld have passed to tate. Bad shot.

    Play 13 is again a clear blocking foul and he loses his balance and throws a prayer.

    Play 14 is just a miss.

    His main issue is expecting to get the whistle and has to play through that and not expect it. Udoka has referenced this many times this year in regards to both him and sengun.

    He really lacks the strength to finish through tho like Sengun can and ita a clear issue he has.
     
  14. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,234
    Likes Received:
    143,668
    all that speed and athleticism, but if there’s a defender within 5 ft of the rim, u can expect a turnover, block, or blown layup

    whoever has been training Tyrese Maxey, please come save this dude
     
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,485
    Likes Received:
    31,950
    This is the Jalen Green experience
     
  16. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,847
    Likes Received:
    30,172

    Not sure what there is to be confused about. He's just not good.
     
  17. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    24,766
    Likes Received:
    31,884
    It doesn't. It's just plain stupid to allow the guy with the worst FG% to take the second most shots on the team. We would be winning more games with a better SG as a starter. I bet we have G League players shooting better, considering everyone on our team has a better FG% than Jalen.
     
  18. T for 3

    T for 3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5,965
    Likes Received:
    8,393
    Jalen has raw athleticism at an elite NBA level. This is what got him drafted so high. This is what has given him such a long rope with the organization. This is what causes fans to keep hope with him.

    At a certain point (which should already have passed), it needs to be accepted that the other deficiencies in his game are so large that he can never be an all star. He would even need to improve in my opinion to be a good 6th man in this league.

    It's Kevin Porter part 2. Stone and who ever else are investing wayyyyyy too much time in this guy simply hoping he is going to make this extremely improbable improvement which would require damn near every part of his game to improve drastically after 3 years.

    How about this dumbass general manager learns from his mistakes, or are we going to have to wait until Green catches a case too?? For the record, I am not saying that would happen to Jalen but you get the point.
     
  19. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,234
    Likes Received:
    143,668
    he’s being given every opportunity to succeed and turn the corner because of where he was drafted…it’s a bad look for the organization if u completely whiff on a #2 overall pick

    I’d bet good money tho that deep down Ime knows Jalen isn’t good right now and doesn’t actually improve the team or help the squad win…if Jalen was pick #20 with this level of play, we’d probably hardly see him on the court or he’d have been traded already
     
    deb4rockets likes this.
  20. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    18,100
    Where are you getting this, you cleqrly have a stat or link somewhere. I'd like to see it because his on/off is a -1.0 on nba stats, and a -1.8 bpm on bkref. Which isnt great but not this huge -7.5 number you keep citing. Now im a few years removed from my peak stats nerd era so i would love to find the data and see it myself but im not finding it.
    nvm found it, and its actually worse at -8.1 per 100

    Your correct on eason, hustle is always rewarded and always impactful. But when your inefficient your Tate and eventually the love starts to fade. You have to continue to contribute elsewhere.

    Again, easons role isnt to shoot and handle the rock, Greens is. He has a higher usage because he can creat for himself and others which tari cant. The byproduct is more shot attempts and turnovers. Right now too many bricks to be cinsiderred successful in the 3rd scorer role but is doing a good job in the 2nd ball handler/facilitator role. 3.1ast/2.2to is not the best but its not incredulous.

    Alperen is 26th in the league with 2.6to/g and Jalen is tied at 41st at 2.2to/g. Fred is 84th at only 1.59/g.

    For our top 3 usage guys thats pretty good. Fred is amazing with ball control. Alperen gets doubled alot and puts forth a ton of possessions creating for himself. Jalen is the clear 3rd banana here but when you have usage you have turnovers, unless your fred.

    Jalens are just ugly and fans hate that. Last night was a really bad night also, but his turnivers are a bit blown out of proportion.

    I agree hes been disapointing overall, because i wanted more growth. But the sky is falling, over-reactin that a lot of fans have, it is not imo.
     
    #1260 BigMaloe, Jan 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2024

Share This Page