Some of it is politics too. If Stone triggers a trade, unless return is an established star, it's an indictment that he chose wrong. He'd be putting himself in the hot seat. Even if it's a good deal where another GM bites on Jalen's potential/ mystery box / he's only XYZ years young, I don't see Stone doing any type of Jalen deal this year. With how many wins stacked up at .500, the GM's best play is to be quiet and lurk behind Ime. With the win record, he's off the hot seat. Trading Green would open his GM career for scrutiny to the wider fan base. Play Cam more see what you have. It doesn't have to be at expense of Jalen's minutes since Dillon and Tari still injured. Give Green the full year under new regime. The GM play to do is to extended Green on a cheaper deal. It accomplishes a few things: 1. If Jalen takes more years to develop, but eventually becomes great, you still have him on the team with more cap room for other players. It Jalen busts in year 5-6, he's not hurting the team financially. 2. If Jalen is on a cheap contract with longer years, Jalen's trade value goes up. So even if Jalen is not efficient, or average, that player-to-contract ratio + potential makes it valuable if a Donovan type of deal presents itself. Other teams can use it too for their future trades. When it comes to money have to cut out the hype and only look at market value. League average efficiency should yield league average salaries. Price the asset appropriately. The Hallmark of a GM in this case is not overpay. If Stone want to flex his skills it's to get to a cheap deal in place. The RFA option is still there, but that becomes risky.
Of course, my assumption is that if Green doesn't break out to be a star type of player by next offseason, they aren't going to give him a max extension. You might believe that the Rockets FO is this stupid. And I don't disagree. But if Stone/Tilman is really that stupid, then it doesn't really matter if we trade Green now, right? They are going to mess up anyway. What hope do we have? And yes, if Green is a bust, then so be it. Move on.
"As high as it will get" is only significant if it is high enough to get something that can make a real difference long term. If Green is really so bad that we armchair fans can predict with high certitude by observable data, then what kind of value would other GMs be willing to pay for him? Trading Green now is a high risk (a chance of missing out a late boomer) low reward (getting marginally better when we are not contending). The reward is just not worth the risk.
Its what happens when a free for all is allowed. More moderation is whats needed and has been needed for a long while. As long as everyone can say whatever they like...
Hmm, regarding trades, I understand all the skepticism that any potential deal could be worth it. I'm skeptical too. I don't think it's impossible though, either to replace him with another high-potential guy on a "change of scenery" deal for both parties, or with Jalen going out as one piece of a larger package for a star (the only one I might want right now that is rumored to be available is Lauri, I'm not interested in trading for Murray, for example).
To accomplish what. Can you answer that? To improve the win total this year? To increase the future outlook of the team? What is the goal in "upgrading" the shooting guard
If we were to trade Jalen, yes, it should be with an eye toward future outlook. We'd want to get a long-term runningmate for Sengun, or a guy we think has a better chance to develop into one. It almost certainly wouldn't be just Jalen going out, but rather Jalen + other assets in a combined package. I doubt we can get something done, but you never know.
To improve the team for now and for the future. When you have a hole at a starting position, you seek to fill that hole.....this isn't another tanking season.
And wouldn't this theoretical team want someone like Eason over Green as the headliner? Just doesn't seem like the right time. Of course be predatory, but like you said/implied.... the odds are low for such a trade. However, there is just a lot of straight up hate for a Rocket's player.
Fultz had the yips and was essentially unplayable, Green isn't that. I think what is unreasonable is comparing Green to Fultz based on what we've seen and then using that as a case of why we need to move on from Green. I just don't understand the rush to improve at this juncture. Seems very short sighted,
What do you mean by "straight up hate" for a Rocket's player? People are posing valid arguments, where does the hate come from? Green is going to be eligible for extension after this season, but we can't discuss whether we should move on from him? In your opinion, when should be appropriate?
I have been meaning to comment about this. Hate is a very strong word in my personal vocabulary. It gets tossed around here as though it means the same as discontent or dislike. I dont hate ANY player on this roster. I do think certain players should be replaced with better ones.
Desperation sets in and they might just pay Van Vleet or Brooks another Max..... Might not necessarily be Green, I do not think they are total imbeciles but when animals (just a pun) are backed into the corner by their own words of Stage 2 or Stage 3 without another legitimate super star next to Alperen.......who knows .... It also depends on luck and if Stone has enough goodwill with his trade partners and if the situation is right......Thousands of requirements ....
Yeah but who? Sure we aren't tanking, but this is still a developmental season with more developmental seasons to come. We aren't in win-now, go all-in mode yet. Like I'd rather have Green than someone like KCP for example, I don't want to just throw vet role players into the lineup to increase the win total. We would win a few more games with KCP, but for what? Who cares? I'd rather continue to see what we have with Jalen. Or alternatively, if the team is ready to give up on him, then let's give Whitmore major minutes. Even if that means losses, I'm prioritizing development over wins at this point. Unless you are suggesting we replace him with another SG that's under 25-ish, I could get on board with that. But I don't see why anyone who has a SG that's under 25 and better than Jalen Green would want to trade him for Jalen Green lol.
It's certainly not everyone or most folks.... The hate really comes from those who were invested too on the KPJ side of the KPJ vs Green debate. We win a game with two important players missing and have been missing.... and look at the folks that had to jump in this thread to complain about Green's mediocre second half. He stayed aggressive most of the game, got to the line above his average, had decent fundamentals, didn't turn the ball over much (1 TO), played decent defense, BUT had a poor shooting second half. I don't understand why that would illicit the response from this thread? I think most folks are just irrational.... much like this thread and the other several threads dedicated to trading Green.
.... that's a bit putting the cart before the horse. This seems to be a trend among certain folks.... irrationalism meets nihilism.
Well yes..... But you are leaving out a lot of context... Like is selling low and rushing a rebuild a prudent, smart move?
Well, the talk has been that they are looking for a starting caliber player at the trade deadline, I'd imagine they'd be looking for someone better than Jalen....which is like half of the total SG's in the league. I think the future at the position is probably Cam Whitmore, so you bring in someone to start there now so you can see if Jalen can be a quality player in a bench role since that appears to be what his future in the league will look like. That'll determine if you even want to offer him an extension at all. I think worst case, you could start Whitmore and bring Jalen off the bench, but I don't think Cam is really ready for that kind of a role....but at least you could count on him to hit open 3's and stretch defenses without shooting the team out of games.....but he's REALLY raw in a lot of ways so it would be a bit painful at times. The reason I'd look for a more legit SG right now, even if they are a rental, is because I think the team benefits from making the playoffs just to change the culture and expectation of the franchise going forward. We need to send the message that roles must be earned and scrubs like Jalen Green don't get to be exempted from having to earn things simply because the team wasted a really valuable pick on him.
There is no guarantee this is selling low - or that it will go up at all.... He still has development value - so selling now if you have someone better or don't believe you are going to pay him - is a wise move. DD
