If this was 1947, we would be having a different discussion. I do not believe that Israel should have been gifted a nation in the Middle East any more than I believe that the Assyrians should have their empire returned to them. However, Israel was founded in 1948 and it isn't going anywhere, and there are now over 7 million Jews living in Israel. It would IMO not be practical or moral to force all the Jews out of Israel at this point. The best outcome is a two party state. So, at this point I support the existence of Israel as a nation and would not support any efforts to seriously remove it from the region. So - my criticism is directed at Jews that support the Israeli government at all costs, and without question. I know a number of Jews that support Israel statehood but do not support the historical treatment of Palestinians, or at least acknowledge that it is a very complicated issue that isn't black and white in 2024 - I have no issue with these people.
Long term this is going to be resolved by the ethnic cleansing and/or genocide of one side or the other. Human history is replete with ethnic cleansings/genocides, from our earliest written records to this very day. Palestinians aren't strong enough to effectuate an ethnic cleansing or genocide and the State of Israel, at this time, is still too beholden to Western pressures/sensibilities to be too brazen in an ethnic cleansing/genocide but who knows what the power structure of the world will look like in 100 years.
If the woke people actually learned the history of war since the dawn of mankind, they would protest every country that exists not enough roads to block or art to vandalize for them @AroundTheWorld @basso
Unreal. Why do the Israelis make it so hard for the world to like them. Just stop being psychos Jesus. If Israel had a more moderate government they would be loved
I figured as much having conversed with you before - just didn't want anyone else to get the wrong idea, as the wording is possibly open to an interpretation different than the one you're positing. Thanks for the reply!
I can be very blunt and as I get older, I have less tolerance for choosing my words if I believe it will take away from my larger point. We live in a very imperfect world and hypocritical world. Particular events can be black or white, but usually the larger view is gray. We have so many names or badges that we use to identify ourselves that I think that they start to become counter productive and box people in. At a base level we need to recognize the mistakes we and those we identify have made and continue to make and we can have improvement or change. This conflict - this reminds me of the tact the the USA took right after 9-11. I remember George W Bush saying “You are either with us - or else you are against us.” That is the flawed thinking that lead to twenty years of wars. We need Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs to not take such black and white positions. I used to believe we needed more secularism - but a lot of the people in Israel and Palestine making decisions are not really religious - it is just a common way to push absolute positions… that and patriotism. I think a lot of Jews and Palestinians don’t like each other - but I also believe they want to live in peace and prosper.
@Nook Nikki and the entire GOP including Trump will soon endorse the idea of removing all Palestinians from gaza and ethnically cleansing the area. I feel sick honestly. Bibi is just buying up time to see what happens in November. The world is at such a tipping point. It's so depressing
I know Jews who express range of views from that not only can Israel do no wrong and all of the land of ancients Judea should be Jewish and non Jews driven out to one’s that don’t think a Jewish state should exist. What I find more disturbing and a major impediment to finding a solution is those who aren’t Jewish that Israel can do no wrong and blindly support Israel policies such as settlement expansion. The view among some right wing US politicians that Israel is the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy and as such has to be defended and also the view that Israel is the front line of a clash of civilizations between the West and Islam has prolonged the conflict.
You think Hamas are not terrorists and rapists? And who attacked whom on October 7? Tell us more about your ****ed up worldviews.
Hamas organization are terrorists who target civilian areas and amongst them individuals have raped The universe also wasn't created on Oct 7th. The week before the IDF was helping settlers commit violence on Palestinians in the West Bank and displacing them with thousands of Palestine detained indefinitely without any pending trial.
That’s not the only thing you said Isreal is defending themselves. It’s not black and white in that regard you know that. Again if you don’t understand it’s much much more complicated than that you are not as smart as you think you are. What research have you done regarding the history of this matter? Within that research what leads you to apparently think that Isreal or Jews have zero fault in what has has and how it has played out? News flash. They both have fault. If you are looking for someone to hate (if that is one’s desire) you can find many to hate on both sides for actions taken.
Israel IS defending itself. October 7 was an act of war. If Mexico crossed the border and murdered and raped 30,000 people (adjusted to the size of the respective population) and took 6,000 hostages and threatened to do it again and again and again, while shooting hundreds of rockets at the USA every single day, what do you think the USA would do? Wait for the UN to pass some resolutions against them? Yeah right.
So the US has the same relationship with Mexico as Isreal does with Palestine? Ok got it. Again you're either not smart, or something else is going on that you have some type of complex. Your weird comparison would be more apt if you had stated, "This would be like if the Cherokee nation went and kidnapped blah blah blah..." Even then it would be extremely juvenile. I also take it you have not done any research regarding the history. If you would like I can suggest a few books and podcasts. That way perhaps you would stfu a bit and if you felt so inclined at least have a bit more nuance in the matter.
Nothing you said makes any sense or excuses what the government of Gaza, Hamas, and many Gazan "civilians" did on October 7. Anything that is happening now, they brought onto themselves. Whatever "relationship" was there, it doesn't excuse October 7. And they threatened to do it again and again and again, and were firing rockets nonstop. Murdering Jews is in their charter. It's all they prepared for all these years, with their terror tunnels, stockpiling rockets, etc. Hamas are Islamists, like ISIS. Any country in the position of Israel would have to move to prevent the attacker from doing it again. And if you disagree, you are an anti-semite, plain and simple. Go away with your Jew hate.
