Sengun/FVV-centric offense won't survive long term

FVV is not the problem. If or when he becomes one, we will deal with it.

It's silly to act like he is the problem when he is one of the big reasons for our turnaround.

 

I don’t think anyone is saying that he is a problem or that he isn’t a huge reason we have had such a turnaround. It’s the huge amount we rely on him and if that’s best for the future.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn’t.

Someone brought up Conley on the wolves and maybe that works out and is a model to try to replicate. Jury is still out on that one. Very well could be that the wolves don’t find their ultimate success until Conley is retired and a younger guy has taken over his spot that aligns more with their best players prime timeline.

 

The Timberwolves really didn't gel UNTIL they traded for Conley.

 

There aren't that many good playmakers on the market......this is the hard truth.....

There are guys like Ishmael Smith or there used to be Ricky Rubio or Rajon Rondo who became journeyman...

Even those guys are too old or not available.

Teams cannot even choose......the way is to draft one, get one from Europe etc.....

It would have been fitting to draft at least a primary or secondary playmaker instead of Jalen Green

 

That’s true and they are looking really good so far but they haven’t done anything yet. And if we’re being real I’d think most people wouldn’t even have them in their top 5 title favorites as of today even with the record they have.

Like I said it’s possible it works out for them. It’s also possible that Conley has come in to show them how things need to be done and a younger guy eventually takes over when they are ready to put it all together.

 

First off I didn't say it was crazy, you don't have to agree with me. I'm just laying out my reasoning for why I think that way. You're free to disagree and I think that's fine, I don't think I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

Secondly, yes, I think the wolves are very happy with Conley. But I also think Conley has been a better player than FVV if we want to line up their level of play at the same age throughout their careers, and he's a better player now. And I also think Conley is an outlier in how well he has continued to play at his age, I don't think that's the norm. I also think there's a big difference between 32/33 (regarding CJ/Jrue) and 36, that's usually the age where you start to decline, often steeply. Also the celtics are contenders today, they aren't looking to win 6 years from now, so someone like Jrue isn't creating any issues for them.

And finally I also think it's quite likely the wolves run into issues at PG because this is probably not their year, but it looks like they will be contenders for years to come. Lets say they make the WCF this year and lose, are they happy going into next year with Conley? What if they lose again in the WCF or the finals the year after, will they be going into the following year with a 38 year old Conley? So yeah, I think it's going well now, but I do think that could be an issue for them down the line. That doesn't mean I think they should cut him today or anything like that, but I think it could turn into a problem for them as they try to contend with this core.

 

I guess. Also I think you're being trite when comparing a player who's shot diet is 65% inside of 10 feet and another guy who shoots 3's 40+% of the time.

So baby hooks are easier to make than 3 point shots? Who would have thunk it?

 

Feel free to compare TS% or any advanced stats.

 

So 3's are easier to make than baby hooks?

 

Obviously someone younger will eventually replace Conley. He’s 36. But that’s not the point. This idea that an entire TEAM must grow and remain together makes no sense to me, nor can I think of an example of it happening.

After a rebuild, you take the time to identify your core young guys. Generally 3 or 4 guys. You build around them, filling in gaps with vets and rookies. That’s what phase we’re in, the identification phase. So far, I think we’ve identified two high level starters in Sengun and Smith, as well as a sixth man in Eason. So, the question is who is the final core guy. Is he on the roster? Are we going to trade for him? The answer to that will dictate a lot going forward.

Let’s say Cam turns out to be a budding star SG. It would absolutely be sensible to extend FVV to a more reasonable deal and continue with the core of FVV/Whitmore/Brooks/Smith/Sengun/Eason, and you figure out FVV’s eventual replacement later. Conversely, if Amen looks like a franchise PG, then you feel more comfortable moving away from FVV. But this notion that we shouldn’t extend players like FVV and Brooks because they may not be here in 7+ years is silly. That’s not how any team approached team building.

 

For FVV, yes.

 

Freddy shoots baby hooks?

 

People here have been talking about accountability for a billion years, and now they don't like it when Jalen, Jabari, or Sengun are held accountable.

Ime explicitly said, "Youth is no longer an excuse," at his first press conference. Ime heavily relies on the FVV-Sengun-centric offense right now because that's the only offense that helped him win games. If Jalen is not featured on the offense as much as he wishes he was, he only has himself to blame.

 

I guess I haven’t seen the claims that we need to grow together as an entire team for it to “work” in the part of the discussion I have taken part in.

Conley makes a lot less, plays a lot less and has the ball a lot less than FVV does for us. They aren’t as overly reliant(shooting and playmaking) on him to win now as he shows their young team what it takes.

I think the main point some have has been a concern with our over reliance on a player that likely will either not be here or be in anywhere near the same role as he’s currently in when this team is actually ready to compete and if that’s the best route for developing the guys who might be in his role in the future. It’s clearly what’s best for this team to win games this season.

As much as I’m excited about our future, I would be much more encouraged if we were winning like we are but FVVs role was more in line with what Conley is doing now for Minny.

I realize this isn’t FVVs fault nor am I laying blame at his feet for going out and playing well and making the decision difficult. Others haven’t stepped up or aren’t ready yet to take on a bigger role and still have this team win this season.

It’s possible more growing pains by relying on him less this year could be what’s best for the future. Or maybe he’s just what we need now and for the long haul and he will ease into a smaller role as time goes on.

 

Ime is literally saying the polar opposite of your point. In your OP, you said FVV needs to change his game to help others. In this, Ime is saying others need to step up TO HELP FVV.

 

Yes, we are overusing FVV. Because we have to. We have no other option. Hence why Ime is imploring guys to step up, because he knows a FVV/Sengun centered offense can be very effective IF other guys step us. This isn't a hard concept.

 

OP: "FVV needs to defer to other players."

Ime: "I need other players to step up to take some of the load off FVV, who has been exceptional."

OP: "See! Ime thinks FVV should be deferring to other players!"

 

To be fair, I haven't seen any sulking or complaining from him. But his performance would not warrant that anyway.

 

You know nobody is stopping Jalen from running the offense or shooting right? Jalen always has the green light this season, when he feels he's confident he shoots a ton and everyone gives him the ball. It happened almost every game where he got hot from the field.

Jalen plays really passively when he misses a lot of shot and shy away from asking for the ball. Udoka and FVV doesn't dictate that. If Jalen asked to run the offense he usually gets it, I rarely see FVV waving him off.