Sengun/FVV-centric offense won't survive long term

Yeah it’s definitely a tricky situation. Want to win but also need to develop. Not as many are stepping up like we hoped yet and there’s not much else to turn to on the roster.

Gotta hope as the season goes on our reliance on FVV can go down as others step up.

 

Because they dont know anything about real,professional , structured basketball.
This is not street ball, l can not count the number of passes from Alpi and FVV to others,they brick all of them.
If Alpi and FVV was in another team they would lead the league asists in #1 and #2.
Unfortunately all they have is Green and Jabari.
I like those two,but they are not on the same Page with FVV and Alperen.
Their basketball iq do not match and this makes our offense predictable.
Problem is not FVV& Alpi plays, problem is other players are not consistent.
They are just bricking, imagine if we had better shooters? Probably we would have won extra 3-4 matches at least.
Jabari and Green %20.. what is this?
From day to day, i start to perceive Jalen as 6th or 7th player from bench and his low iq deterioates some of offense sets...

 

It's sorta true but I think it's a balancing act. If you don't have a super skilled veteran PNR ball handler, it's going to majorly stunt the growth of everybody else. I mean, look at what FVV has done for Sengun's development, right? Isn't Sengun the highest scoring roll man in the league? We definitely wouldn't be getting that with KPJ or with any ball handler that was already on the roster. As others have mentioned we also run a lot of actions that involve more than just FVV/Sengun, like the wedge or the spain, where guys have to run it correctly, set good screens, and be ready react appropriately based on how the defense handles it. None of this is possible if you don't have a skilled ball handler that can make the right reads and get the ball to the right guy. So from that angle I think having FVV run the show and be the dominant ball handler has actually been really good for everybody elses development. Having an expert ball handler is actually accelerating the growth of everybody else, not limiting it - they are benefitting from his ability to run the plays properly and make the right reads.

But at the same time, you don't want it to turn into the Fred show. We don't want him taking 25 shots a game, we don't need to be winning games because he carried us and everyone else kinda stood around and watched. And to be clear, I don't think he's doing this, or at least not very often. I think he's done a really good job.

And then finally, the biggest problem here (IMO) is that Fred is not our point guard of the future and it may stunt the growth of other ball handlers, or make it difficult for them to learn this role. It's nice to say that Jabari/Jalen/Sengun/Tari/Cam/whoever is getting really good at operating in all of our complex offensive actions, but what good is this if we don't have a skilled ball handler to run the show? FVV is here to be a vet mentor, to help the guys learn, but at some point we are going to need our own guy to take on this role, ideally Amen Thompson. If/when we compete for a championship and our guys are in their prime, the ball handler is obviously not going to be Fred. So that piece of the puzzle is tough.

 

Why do we say FVV is not the PG of the future? I think he can play at roughly the same level for another 5-7 years, barring injuries.

 

You're going to pay FVV 40-50Ms for 7 years straight? Yikes.

 

Pretty much agreed 100%.

FVV has been great for Sengun and for some of our other play finishers. Still wish we didn’t have to put so much on FVV.

But maybe the plan all along has been to ride Fred this year into organizing our offense to respectability and bringing on our young playmakers slowly(outside of Sengun) with hopes of taking a much bigger playmaking role later this season or next.

 

This is my exact point. We should have the ingredients for a potent offense.

Offensive creators and PNR engine: FVV and Sengun
Slashing off-ball guards: Green, Cam, Amen
Spacers and defensive aces: Brooks, Smith, Eason

The biggest issue is we don’t have a true #1 slashing guard. That is critical to a functioning offense. Hopefully Jalen steps up, or Amen/Cam develop. But the issue is at SG, not FVV/Sengun.

 

I would pay him what the market value is, unless I have a better option. Will cross that bridge when we get to it.

I have been very pleased with FVV.

 

I don't know if Sengun-FVV centirc offense is the answer long term but I do know it's by far the best option on this current roster construction. In fact, I'm fairly confident that the Rockets would have the worst record in the West yet again without one of FVV and Sengun on the roster.

 

Play making, court vision can not be taught,it is from your DNA, it comes from naturally, you have it or you don't have it.
That's why play Making bigs like Jokic,Sengun and Sabonis are becoming the most valuable players, unique players in basketball.
After the fall of Golden Warriors Dynasty, basketball will go back to its roots.
3 pt shot is not basketball.
Basketball means fundamentals.
Shooters can not be the primary offense weapons it self, cause in nights they suffer, your opponent torture you.
Just how we did OKC, which is a great 3 pt shooting team.
Only we need is good SG that will support main offensive hub- from big man-and this is not Jalen, as it is obviously clear

 

I've said this don't know how many times. It's just commonsense that having two weapons is better than having only one, no matter how effective the first weapon is.

This goes all the way to the Harden era. People kept saying, "Harden ISO is one of the most effective offenses in the league. Why do you want to go away from it?" The point is not to go away from it but to incorporate more diversity into the offense. It might not matter in the regular season. In the playoffs, you can see that when teams carefully game-planned to stop your one weapon, you have no other recourse. We saw how the team got bogged down when the opponent used schemes to take the ball out of Harden's hands right when he crossed the half court. They didn't know what to do because they never needed to do anything else. And there were no adequate personnel to do anything else because the team was built around one single weapon.

But, but, but... the argument always came back: It is the most efficient and effective weapon. Why use something else? They even showed me the analytics, which I had already known well and was not arguing against the stats. I was arguing against the anti-commonsense reasoning.

 

It is that high because Jalen just pulls up and shoots......

 

Too old and just not good enough. I think he's been very good for us, and he's exceeding expectations in his role as veteran mentor. But if we're being realistic, when is this team contending and when are they winning a championship? Most superstars don't win their first until like 26 or 27. Lebron at 27, Jordan at 27, Curry at 26, Jokic at 27, Giannis at 26, Shaq at 27. Some even later than that, Hakeem at 31 and Dirk at 32.

Keep in mind we have to 1) become a legitimate playoff team and gain playoff experience. Not just first round fodder but learn how to actually play series against a single team and make the adjustments between games, learn all their plays, etc etc, you know the drill. Just learning how to win in the playoffs. Then 2) we go from playoff team to championship contender, we've learned how to win a series and now we have to learn how to do it against the best. Against the teams with MVP caliber players. Once we are at a point that we can actually contend with and beat these teams, now we are a finals caliber team. Now we have our "championship window" where we know we can actually beat these teams, and this is where we 3) go all in with our roster and maximize this window. This is where we maximize our assets, pray that Tillman pays the tax, all that stuff.

IF all of this stuff actually happens according to plan, this is 6+ years down the line, possibly 7 or 8 or even more. Are we really going into this with a 35, 36, 37 year old Fred VanVleet? I just don't think so. We're gonna want someone who's prime lines up with our guys.

 

I still see this as test season.

 

If FVV and Alpi centric offense did not exist, this team would win less than 5 games at best..
We all want other offense options, but what do you offer with the existing roster?

 

Why is that such a crazy thought? You think the Timberwolves are upset that their young guys are budding under 36 year old Conley? Or the Celtics with a 33 yr old Jrue Holiday? Or the Pelicans with a 32 yr old CJ McCollum? If Amen doesn’t develop into a franchise PG, then I’m fine with a vet like FVV leading the charge. We’re past the “every player has to align age-wise” stage.

 

We are just talking.....of course this Rockets' roster and playbook are extremely limited as they are.

The balance of young and old works for the starters with the emergence of Sengün but not for the bench.