Sengun/FVV-centric offense won't survive long term

This is something we all on the BBS have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

On the Astros forum, yes. But 90% of the GARM is written with the logic, grammar, and knowledge of a preschooler who just figured out how to attach a GIF. So it is nice to be surprised with something about the Rockets that goes over my head for reasons other than my lack of knowledge of the latest schoolyard slang.

By the way, did you know Alpi is a HIM who has a deep bag, or that the players should really practice making shots sometimes? If not, I have a Simpson’s picture that will do my talking for me.

 

Get your crayons and pencils!



Watch that cornhole, buddy.

 

Also:

I do not know what either of these things mean, because I am old.

 

At its simplest, think of a pick and roll but with 3rd player then setting a back screen for the rolling player - where it gets interesting is all the permutations of inverting screens, slipping screens, popping rather than rolling, putting the ball in the hands of smart player to make reads and putting pressure on defenders to communicate switches when there are multiple really quick screens.

YouTube it - there are a ton of videos of various NBA teams utilizing it. Here is a super quick explanation to give you a few white board and game film examples which happen to translate well into how FVV, Sengun, Jabari could all be threats out of the same set because of FVV’s 3pt range and driving skills, Jabari’s ability to set a pick as a big and pop out for a 3pter, and Sengun’s abilities to work defenders from the FT and make great reads based on how defenders decide to cover FVV or Jabari:

 

Yep. I like Amen's potential, but for the future, one of either him or Sengun are going to need to be much better shooters for them to share the court much. I like Tate as a rotation player, but he's not a great fit with Sengun regarding offensive play.

Unless Sengun becomes a better shooter, the Rockets are going to need to put a premium on shooting.

 

While I agree with you, I think it’s highly likely Sengun will start hitting 3s at a decent clip. The form looks good and his mid-range is already solid.

 

FWIW: Rockets have played this in the past with D’Antoni, using Harden, Ego and Ryno/Ariza . Like 7 yrs ago, I broke it down on cfnet.

Ime has been using the Wedge roll since Day 1. It’s one of our most effective PnR actions.

It, too, is inverted. And when we add a 3rd player to it, it essentially is a Spain PnR from the wing.

For our starting line-up, the Wedge roll is better than Spain, imso, because Spain has a tendency to get too crowded for the big man. And since our Big Man is our best player, and not a good 3PT shooter, the Wedge is better because it doesn’t clog up Sengun’s post play. When the other options are covered (eg roll, drive, pop) you still have sengun on the left block single covered, often in a mismatch.

 

Yeah, I noticed that and it makes sense because that was a common set Pops would back in the day with those Duncan led Spurs teams. I like some of the matchup problems Spain offense creates for defenses(especially forcing defenders to make quick judgements in those complicated switching schemes now being used by most teams) but agree with you about it not being the easiest offense to take advantage of Sengun's passing skills IF he can only be the low man in those sets because of his range limitations.

I'll point out - that's been the bell I have been ringing this season on Sengun - it's really going to open up a lot more variation to our offense with him as our "hub" if he has 3 level scoring as part of his toolkit - he HAS to add a 3pt shot! This is typically why teams don't often run offenses through bigs these days because they often aren't able to do that and no surprise - that's why guys like Jokic and Embiid are able to be effective as big men offensive playmakers because they can do that. I appreciate that Sengun has increased his attempts from 3 this year and the defensive improvement is real(which was previously holding him back as a guy you may not be able to build around) but this is the #1 thing he needs to add to legitimize himself as a Franchise cornerstone this offseason.

 

The opposite is true.



We need the other guys to make some shots, simple.

 

Bag = A skill or tool bag, more skills.

HIM - franchise player....

 

Without FVV and Sengun, this team has 0 offense, bro.
What are you talkin about?
Nobody says that Udoka should not find other offensive plays, it will be better, ok.
But stop this ****,look at all others stats and look at FVV&Sengun stats.
Sengun gives great passes, but Green, Jabari and others waste these passes.
With better shooters other than Green etc,this team is play off team in west.
FVV & Sengun are the highest iq players in this team, but other players can not catch their iq level.
Better and consistent shooters around Sengun is needed.

 

Probably a bit late to reply to the OP but I think this is a good take.

The FVV/Sengun 2 man game is certainly effective, all is well and good but if that’s the first punch what is the second punch?

It’s not a knock on them to say there has to be a second punch. Fred and Sengun can’t play 48 minutes/100 PnR per game. Are they willing to sacrifice some personal stats to achieve team success?

 

I honestly am not following the OP's point. The FVV/Sengun game is literally the only consistent offense we've discovered. The answer is for guys around them to step up, not to stop the one thing that's been working. Frankly, if Ja. Green would step up into his role, we'd be in a really solid place.

 

Idea behind the OP is really no different than the idea behind not wanting Harden back.

The worry was we would rely too heavily on Harden because for this season it would be what’s best for winning games but long term it might limit growth opportunities for our young guys.

Up to this point we have relied very heavily on FVV in a way similar to the fear some had with a possible Harden reunion. It’s what’s best for the team today to win but is it the best for the future of our young guys?

I do think we need to find a better balance. FVV is 1st in minutes per game and 9th in time of possession per game this season.

 

I agree we need better balance. However, we need our other players to consistently make plays and score, and so far only FVV and Sengun are able to deliver.

 

I do think that a FVV/Sengun offense needs other dynamics around it to be successful long term, but I don't think that the OP's sentiment is correct that it cannot be the focal point.

What I do think needs to improve, and I think it will, is more motion in our offense with a bit more dynamic sets. Ime is a top notch coach, but the emphasis has certainly been on the defensive end which has paid off with an overachieving record so far.

However long term, I do think Ime can start introducing some a bit more to not just put all the onus on FVV, and Sengun to pick and roll their way to 125 points a night. Even if nothing changes though, and we just get Brooks & Tari back, we'll be alot better because of the defensive end, and the bit of shooting they both can offer, but it's probably more of an offseason free agent or trade type of situation paired with another training camp with this core to make a FVV/Sengun centric offense really hum.

....

Right now this team with the unit we have now, probable has a ceiling around play-in to 6th seed, and first round exit. With simply bringing this group back another year and adding or developing an all star caliber perimeter scorer, a backup big, and another training camp to develop our schemes, I do think this group in 2025 can be top 5 in the West, and make a playoff run.

 

The "young guys" bricked everything that was given to them. Jabari and Jalen got the opportunities, they shot like 20% from the field, how more risk do you want to take