Late to the party, there were a lot of resentment by southerners against the northerners that could be forced into the States Rights puzzle piece, but none of what Haley said alluded to it and a lot of that resentment came from the slavery-exploited cotton trade both sides deeply benefited from and the south felt the north profitted off their sweat. A lil bit like today's globalization where the final good is vastly more profitable than the raw material... Given that owning 2+ slaves, let alone plantations were mostly a 1%er thing back then, it was clear the south overall was stagnating compared to their northern brethren. The cotton gin only prolonged the inevitable and killed any major need for industrialization. Southern romantics would call it a moot point after Sherman's march destroyed a huge chunk of their economy that was still felt a century later, but that generational resentment against northerners (aka urban elitists) was already deeply ingrained before any carpet bagging or botched reconstruction plans. Slavery is an absolute point, but the principles behind having a southern populace that mostly didnt own slaves back "their elites" can somewhat be framed as issues we're dealing with today in the form of an urban/rural divide and the personalities that choose one for the other.
I don’t think Haley is for slavery and in her follow ups she does clarify that. What she and others are dancing around is the idea that slavery wasn’t the driving issue and that for a certain segment of this country it is symbolic of other struggles. Yes states rights and the size and power of the federal government were Issues but primarily because of how that affected slavery. It’s right in the articles of secession that the confederate states wrote. That some have romanticized that history to argue against things like border control or federal taxes is a disservice to history.
This provides some context on why she answered that way. Ultimately, she's trying not to lose the 'confederate' base in 2023 and 2024. Nikki Haley’s comment on the US civil war was no gaffe | Sidney Blumenthal | The Guardian Her language in New Hampshire was the same as the rhetoric she honed in South Carolina. The Wall Street Journal editorially praised her in 2010 for an interview she gave to a neo-Confederate group, the Palmetto Patriots. “‘You had one side of the Civil War that was fighting for tradition, and I think you had another side of the Civil War that was fighting for change,’ she said. She did not use the word ‘slavery’ but hinted at it, saying that ‘everyone is supposed to be free.’” The Journal noted approvingly: “She pledged to retain a political compromise that gave the Confederate flag a place of prominence in front of the State House, a position that puts her within the mainstream among GOP leaders in the state.” Haley’s answer was an attempt to repeat her balancing act in the birthplace of secession, offering ‘lost cause lite’. Her rationale was a muffled echo of that of Confederate leaders justifying secession. Jefferson Davis, in his speech resigning from the Senate on 9 January 1861, before assuming the Confederate presidency, appealed to “the principles upon which our Government was founded”, and his “high and solemn motive of defending and protecting the rights we inherited”. Alexander Stephens, the Confederate vice-president and framer of the Confederate constitution, in his speech of 21 March 1861 proclaiming slavery as its “cornerstone”, stated that it “secures all our ancient rights, franchises, and liberties”. The Confederates consistently described opposition to their insurrection as “coercion”, to which Lincoln gave one of his many answers on 18 April 1864: “The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty, especially as the sheep was a black one.”
I actually listened to that and it's just 4 aging men b****, moan and gossip like the View. 25-35% ish are things Nikki already did and the rest is them inflating stuff out of their saggy butts to promote their View and make/shape narratives for the listener. It's polished, and the Barbershop format works as entertainment, but it's inherently dangerous imo for folks who don't tune into the nitty gritty of politics on the daily.
I jumped around for 30 seconds then exited. This is the type of **** that paved the way for Trump the first time. As the saying goes...
Robert E. Lee's beliefs on slavery are complicated. He supported the end of slavery at the federal level, he also acknowledged that the future would judge slavery quite harshly and rightfully so. On the other hand, he was not willing to be poor or socially ruined to free his slaves.... the economic cost and social cost would have been staggering for him, and instead he kept the slaves he got, he worked them hard too by most accounts, and he went to court to prevent them from being freed. He claimed that he could not free the slaves he inherited because the debt his father-in-law left him with the slaves was impossible to payback without working the slaves before freeing them. I think that some have overstated Lee's character - but for the time, for white people in the 1860's that were part of the establishment, he was considered an excellent gentleman - but many of his characteristics do not align with modern sensibilities. He never raised his hand or voice to a child or woman, he was always honest and well mannered - but he also owned human beings, looked down upon the poor and believed that social classes in the white community were more important than freeing black people.
Why would she say no? Going on the assumption that he's not in prison by next summer and actually on the ticket, and somehow wins, it's only 1 term. Even then, the odds that he does something to get impeached (again) is extremely high.
She used the "I have black friends" excuse... https://www.axios.com/2024/01/05/haley-desantis-town-hall-iowa-caucus-trump-2024 "I should have said slavery right off the bat. But if you grow up in South Carolina, literally in second and third grade, you learn about slavery," Haley said. "I had Black friends growing up. It is a very talked-about thing," she added. "I should have said slavery. But in my mind, that's a given, that everybody associates the Civil War with slavery."
I’ll just comment here that I actually think Haley is doing as good of a job as possible to do the impossible… which is to be a general election electable sane candidate but also be acceptable to the MAGA cult if she was to be the candidate up against a Democrat. The issue is the MAGA cult base and how impossible to deal with and how deplorable their beliefs are. There are just some issues like the Civil War where it’s impossible to be “Haley like” and not be offensive to someone. She knows exactly what she’s saying on the Civil War comments and is taking a known hit with independents in order to avoid a full meltdown with MAGA pro confederacy right.
all of the useless ink spilled by our political press and the hundreds of millions of dollars duped from rich GOP donors on DeSantis and Haley - after their seeminlgy inevitable beatdown at the hands of hundred-time indicted piece of **** like Trump who is barely participating in the election, is likely to prompt a round of serious SOUL SEARCHING and a sea change in how national political issues are covered J/k no it won't. Get ready fro more "full employment huge problem for biden" style of Times thinkpieces.
Basically proving one of the main criticisms of haley... she will say and be anything it takes depending on where she is at...
Worried about... what? I have posted that I think I have a as good a chance of winning the republican nomination as haley.
