We blew right by 500. At this rate we may be at 520+ by the end of the year. @AroundTheWorld @Os Trigonum
I don't get why believing (based on what he has shown so far) he can be a superstar is a "cult like" opinion while claiming he can't be a superstar for some weird arbitrary reason is an "objective" opinion. You can talk about his supposed physical limitations all day but it doesn't change the fact that he is damn good. Basketball is obviously more than height, wingspan etc. I get it's a bit blasphemous to compare him to all time greats. But when you compare him to other young players who will be the next generation like Chet, Banchero, Wemby etc. he is actually one of the best ones (in my subjective opinion).
You are certainly allowed to have your opinion. What would be even better would be if you could have your opinion without throwing in crap like calling people who have a different opinion from you "cult like worshippers" and nonsense like that. Just trying to have a fact-based conversation: NBA players, and especially Centers, usually keep improving at least until they are 24, 25 or older before they reach their ceiling. Take Domantas Sabonis, as an example. It would be very rare and unusual for a Center to not improve from where he is at age 21, barring a career-changing injury. So if you look at where Sengun is right now at age 21, and his trajectory of improvement from season to season (something that is (unfortunately) VERY different for Jalen Green, for example, who got worse each season so far), then you can see that he is clearly tracking ahead of someone like Sabonis. He has already reduced his turnovers per minute, as well as his fouls, despite increased minutes. Probably a result of good coaching, but also of being a cerebral player who never wants to stop improving. You seem to think that he will not improve further from 20/9/5 because of perceived size/athleticism deficiencies. I disagree because: He has improved significantly in almost all categories from one NBA season to another so far Centers usually don't reach their peak level before age 24/25 or so. There are clear areas where he can improve which should make a big impact on his output which don't depend on more size or more athleticism: Improving his free-throw percentage: This seems to already be happening. He was above 80 % in his MVP season in Turkey, and when he focuses and stops the gimmicky talking to the ball stuff, he has gotten much better. With the right level of aggression and confidence, he should be able to convert 3-4 more free throws per game. Improving his 3-point shot: He needs to stop hesitating. With a lot of practice, he should be able to shoot it like 4 times per game and get to at least 36 % or so. Simply adding that would expand his game further and add about 3 points to his averages. Adding a rim protector he shares court time with, to take some of the burden off of him defensively. This could either come through natural improvement by Jabari and more time with Tari, or we would eventually add someone with a skill set of a Walker Kessler or something. This person could also box out for Alpi sometimes, instead of Alpi doing it for others. This would preserve some energy for Alpi and reduce fouls he has been committing because he has been left on an island. This would probably add 2-3 rebounds per game and allow him to get better at other aspects of the game as well, just because of being less gassed. He would probably then also get more weakside blocks. Just adding better shooters around him and playing more "Senhub" - I am unfortunately more and more coming to the conclusion that it is not working with Jalen. This will probably help the team greatly and increase his assists from 5 to 8 or 9. I would also expect further athletic improvement - he is barely out of puberty. He can still add more strength and muscle. I predict that all of this will happen over the next 2-3 seasons. And that doesn't even count what he has done previously to add to his bag and what I expect him to continue doing, like adding the "Dirk"/"Flamingo" shot, etc. At that point, you are talking about a guy who will average 27/12/8 with more than a steal and a block and probably about 1.5 threes a game. All of that while playing solid team defense. I just don't see how his height or athletic ability would not allow him to get there. He is tall and athletic enough to do this. I would argue that a player with that level of production is a franchise player. Those are Larry Bird - like numbers in terms of points/rebounds/assists, or something close to a Kevin Garnett. Alpi will never get close to the insane defensive numbers Hakeem produced, in terms of steals and especially blocks. But offensively, I would not rule out that he gets close to Hakeem's output in terms of points and rebounds, while getting a lot more assists. And when you look at the expected trajectory of a Center aged 21 putting up the numbers he is putting up (on a winning team, right now), I consider it more probable than not that in a few years, this will be the outcome.
You know what? I'm so done pussyfooting around this point. Sengun is a top 20 player RIGHT NOW. It's foolish to say he doesn't project to be a top five player. By the way, in history, how many 21 year olds have averaged a line of 20/8/5? Three: Magic, Luka, and Sengun. And only Sengun and Magic have done it while shooting over 50%. Don't believe me? Sengun doesn't "project" to be as good as Embiid and Joker. He projects to be better than them. Deal with it, haters.
Do you think he will actually end up better then jokic? In the last 25ish years these are the players on par with jokic: lebron. List over Better then jokic would put him AT WORST as the 3rd best player ever and most likely at #1, ahead of mj and lbj
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Even if he ends up slightly worse than Jokic, still "worth the trouble". And someone who has played with both and knows all about Jokic's greatness does not seem to think it is a ridiculous thought. https://www.si.com/nba/rockets/news...es-alperen-şengün-be-better-than-nikola-jokić "There are comparisons," Green said. "They are both talented guys who can do a lot of things on the floor with their size. But my message to Alpi is, 'don't try and be Joker.' If so, 'be better than him.'"
Would be cool if it happens, then the rockets could claim the GOAT instead of the bulls. Player quotes are completely worthless though idk why you post them
It’s a bit of a cult when there is a hint of reality injected into what is an overwhelmingly positive opinion and folks jump on you like a dog on a juicy steak. Certainly there is a spectrum with Sengunatics but there’s no denying that there are a few folks here that are downright obsessed in a way that makes the fandom just as toxic as the Lin days if not worse at times.
I know at least one important fan who still seems to be hoping that someone else will take the spot as Houston's best player. "The organization is really high on Amen and think he might have the highest potential of all of them." Barring a major trade, being a die-hard Rockets fan who can't get himself to appreciate Alpi and accept him as our franchise player might be a bit of a challenge over the next years .
I thought it was just your opinion? Now it's "reality?" Do you really have no idea how arrogant you sound?
Here is another question. Do you believe that this team would considerably better if we had 21 year old Jokic instead of 21 year old Alpi? I don't think so and I think that 21 year old Jokic would face even more criticism on this board for his lack of athleticism and defense. Of course progress is not linear and yada yada. Maybe this is already the best season of his career and he will stagnate from now on. But looking at what he has produced so far and the fact that he constantly improved every season, it's definitely not a "cult like" opinion to expect him to become a superstar.
21 year old jokic had a TS 16% above league average and a 7.3 bpm so we be better ya. Sengun is only 1% above league average this year
There was a famous poster on the NBA sub Reddit who was absolutely obsessed with Jokic. Already before he was drafted. He wouldn't stop posting about Jokic and he actually claimed that he would become an all time great. He was basically like Hakeem94 or wherever he was called and he was even banned. He was a running joke because noone believed that Jokic could be more than maybe a solid starter. But at the end he was right. Being paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't after you. So yes there are some annoying Şengün stans but that doesn't mean that Şengün hasn't the potential to be great. The existence of Şengün "cultists" doesn't make the facts based optimism of other fans less valid. By the way that Reddit poster who was obsessed with Jokic was also super into Şengün and made the same claims about him (tbf he also claimed Hartenstein would be a superstar)
Firstly, you all need to define what "superstar" is. Personally, I expect him to be somewhere between Sabonis and Jokic in his prime, and based on his latest performances, I'm going to gladly say that he'll more likely be closer to Jokic than Sabonis. Can he surpass Jokic and become the greatest offensive center the game has ever seen? Probably not.
Correct, Jokic at 21 was better overall than Sengun at 21, main difference being better shooting, as you rightly point out. For the record, I don't agree with Kenyon Martin that Sengun is ahead of Jokic in year 3. But for Alpi to even be in that conversation at all is a) an honor, b) way, way more than 99.8% of Clutchfans ever expected.
If you compare Alpi's third season with Yao Ming's third season (keep in mind, Yao was 24 then already, three years older than Alpi is now), Alpi already clears Yao in all categories except blocks and FT % (FG % also slightly lower, but that's driven by shooting threes, which Yao didn't do then).
Another interesting one - Alpi vs. KG (1 x NBA MVP, 15 x All-Star) at age 21. Purely based on stats at that age, I couldn't pick one of the two as clearly better.
