Start Eason - bench Green

Well It’s about balance and finding combinations where players compliment each other while having an advantage or creating mismatches for opponents. Tari and Brooks can’t consistently get to the paint off the dribble drive. Especially Brooks who is a poor finisher in the paint. The handles and explosiveness isn’t there for either guy. Tari’s handles aren’t there as he just doesn’t take people off the dribble to score but rather gets his points off threes, 10-15 ft jump shots, put backs, or steals and scoring on the break. If you put him in a lineup as 2 with Brooks who is the guy to draw doubles or suck that defense in creating openings and seams for others? Or who will get to the paint quickly when you need a bucket? The offense would rely on FVV even more with his dribble drive or high screen and roll as Tari and Brooks likely can’t play PNR with Sengun.

Teams play certain combinations for a reason. Clips play Kawhi at the 3 even tho he could be a 2 since Mann is a good defender and rebounder but they already have 3 guys that could get to the paint. Lakers play Reddish for a similar reason with Russell and Lebron able to dribble drive. Raptors have tinkered with big wing players at all positions but that’s why they’re not that good. OG is a natural 3 but plays 2 and not great at dribble drive or finishing in the paint. They rely on Barnes who isn’t great himself and Siakim who can get to the paint for that responsibility. Balancing and complimenting.

 

The problem is, the things you say Brooks and Tari can’t do, Jalen isn’t doing either. Except Brooks and Tari can provide elite defense and better shooting. The idea of Jalen is not matching up with the reality of Jalen right now. The reality of Jalen is that when the starters are in, he is sitting in the corner and Fvv is running the team, because whatever Jalen can do, Fvv does it much better with a steadier hand. Brooks and Tari can sit in the corner just as well as Jalen.

In fact, Jalen is already our de facto 6th man. Coach runs him with the bench unit and that’s when he gets to “cook”. Actually playing him off the bench is merely making his current role official.

 

Are you saying Green can’t explode to the paint consistently? And what has he done the past 2 years? What has he done this year? Simply just existing on the court and never scoring? He absolutely has the ability and it’s proven in the numbers and game tape. Not sure why this is a debate.

 

1. Half the time, no, he just can’t get past his man, that’s why he needs a screen with Sengun for all his actions.

2. When he does get past his man, half the time he doesn’t know what to do, forces a drive against a shot blocker and turns it over or gets it blocked.

If he could get to the paint so consistently as you are claiming, why do you think he’s struggling so much? This team’s offensive struggle is exactly because they desperately need a player that can get to the paint at will and Jalen isn’t providing it. That’s also why in the scattered games that Jalen does do it, the rockets look great. He just not consistently doing it.

 

Tari should stay in the role he's succeeding at so well. If his stellar production continues, his minutes should increase to 25-30 per game and he should close regularly.

Suddenly shoving him in the starting lineup right now would be a spastic, knee-jerk action that should be avoided. This team, its identity and the player rotations will continue evolving as the season progresses. By February, there will be clear winners, losers, keepers and goners.

If Tari's rebound rate and 3pt% continue like this, he won't be denied by Udoka.

 

This whole discussion was about starting Tari in place of Green as 2 guard which you explained that you would like to see Brooks as 2 guard. I simply said it’s about ability and why he is in the starting lineup. Jalen has the ability to explode and get into the paint off the dribble this is a fact historically the past 2 years and within this season while Brooks or Tari can’t. Their game is different and they don’t have the same skillset. Now you switched the conversation to how his level of play is this year. 2 different discussions my man. Ability and level of play are 2 different things. And I just explained to you what an offense with Tari as 2 guard would look like. Now you tell me what that lineup would look like or how they would run their offense with that personnel grouping? Who’s playing PNR or handling if FVV isn’t?

 

It is not ideal to have only one ball handler. I am not against benching Green. But replacing him with Eason in the starting lineup isn't a good idea.

Tari is not the kind of player you run plays for him or give him the ball and let him create. You want him to roam free and pick up the garbage when the play is broken. And you certainly don't want Brooks to think he is a high offensive option. So the only guy left other than Fred and Alpi is Jabari who you want to run plays. That's just too limited.

If you bench Green, you probably want to start Holiday. But playing two short guys together will suffer on defense. Amen may eventually become a good starting option.

The only way to start Tari is to bench either Brooks or Jabari, which is not going to happen.

 

We should start Green when he is eligible - Eason back to bench.

You can't underestimate what Draymond brings to the team.

 

People put too much stock on who starts. Ime is massaging the rotation perfectly. Tari is the perfect bench player and can get 25-30 mins off the bench. Taking advantage of who is hot and matchups is much more important than who is in the starting 5. We need our bench to hold the line when our starters sit. I think Ime is looking for an incredible defensive unit that will dominate in transition ball out of our second unit. Amen, Holiday (until Cam is ready) Tate and Tari with a reasonable backup center could run other benches off the court. If you really want Green on the bench, then trade for a Brogdon. Don’t screw up the Amen and Tari combo that is going to do amazing things playing together.

 

I agree all the way until the last sentence. I wouldn't do it at this moment, but those guys, especially Brooks, aren't immune from losing minutes/starting spot if Tari can scale up what he's doing on more minutes.

 

Jalen's handles "arent' there" and he can't consistently score ANYWHERE. FVV and Sengun are the only competent players to run the offense on the entire roster.

At least Tari can hit 3's and play plus defense. Jalen brings literally nothing positive to the table most nights. Jalen Green has the 2nd worst WS/48 on the entire roster among players who have played at least 100 minutes, only ahead of Jock Landale. He should be benched no matter what, he's not a top 8 player on the team.

 

Again the discussion was about starting a Forward in a 2 guard spot. The reasoning why it won’t work is because of ability. You can’t just plug players in without a balanced lineup. Not how that works dude. That’s like saying Luc Mbah A Moute should start in 17-18 if Harden wasn’t playing well. Harden still has the natural ability and tools to get to the paint as a quicker 2 guard and Luc simply didn’t. Ability. Not how a player is performing. That’s a different discussion. I believe there’s a misconception that a lot of fans believe in about plugging players into a lineup. You might not like how Green plays but he still has ability to get to the paint or beat his man one on one. Eason and Brooks are completely different players with different abilities and games than Green.

 

The discussion was starting a better player that has the flexibility to play SG over a guy who is terrible but a "natural" SG. We're not talking about a scenario where there's a guy who has the "natural ability and tools", we're talking about a chucker scrub with no handles who can't shoot.

Tari could recklessly charge into the paint and pray he gets a whistle just like Jalen, that's not exactly a skill.

I'm talking about not starting a guy who isn't one of the top 8 players on the roster simply because of positional labels.

 

No the discussion was starting Tari instead of Green. That’s the misconception. Not every player has the same ability. And that’s your interpretation.

 

....yeah, we're talking about starting Tari who can at least shoot and play plus defense over Green who brings laterally nothing to the table most nights.

It's Jalen Green's complete lack of ability that is the reason a guy playing out of position would be an upgrade. You keep going to some theoretical skills that a natural SG would have over a natural SF, but that's not what we're talking about. If we had a starting caliber SG, the conversation would be VERY different....we don't.

 

I don't know but Tari's recent play further proves to me why he isn't a starting 2 on this team. Its not that I don't think he's a starting caliber player, its just that his skillset overlaps with Brooks and Eason scores the ball WITHOUT demanding the ball. Which is great, but you still need a dynamic scorer to put pressure on the defense off the dribble (with FVV) and that's not Tari's game at all. I still want to see Cam get some minutes here and think his skillset suits the starters best as a 2.

 

Again that’s your interpretation.

 

Diff player same logic

 

I mean, I guess, but it's an "interpretation" that is backed by pretty much all of the metrics. Jalen's overall impact to the team's offensive and defensive ratings are a -11.3 this season, those numbers have never in his career been positive overall even on REALLY bad teams.

There's just not that many people left holding on to the delusion that Jalen Green is a really talented player. The 164 games proving otherwise were enough for most.