What’s your definition of defending itself? Does committing war crimes, bombing homes, ethnically cleansing a land, making Gaza uninhabitable constitute ‘defense’?
According to this Israeli genocide scholar, it is a genocide. Or he is he also funded by terrorists? https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide “It’s not only Israel’s leaders who are using such language. An interviewee on the pro-Netanyahu Channel 14 called for Israel to “turn Gaza to Dresden.” Channel 12, Israel’s most-watched news station, published a report about left-leaning Israelis calling to “dance on what used to be Gaza.” Meanwhile, genocidal verbs—calls to “erase” and “flatten” Gaza—have become omnipresent on Israeli social media. In Tel Aviv, a banner reading “Zero Gazans” was seen hanging from a bridge. Indeed, Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza is quite explicit, open, and unashamed. Perpetrators of genocide usually do not express their intentions so clearly, though there are exceptions. In the early 20th century, for example, German colonial occupiers perpetrated a genocide in response to an uprising by the Indigenous Herero and Nama populations in southwest Africa. In 1904, General Lothar von Trotha, the German military commander, issued an “extermination order,” justified by the rationale of a “race war.” By 1908, the German authorities had murdered 10,000 Nama, and had achieved their stated goal of “destroying the Herero,” killing 65,000 Herero, 80% of the population. Gallant’s orders on October 9th were no less explicit. Israel’s goal is to destroy the Palestinians of Gaza. And those of us watching around the world are derelict in our responsibility to prevent them from doing so.”
For the purposes of this exchange, let's say "defending itself" means "any lethal military action whatsoever against Hamas". If the circumstances within Gaza - population density, deliberate misuse of civilian infrastructure by a terrorist organization, etc. - mean that civilian casualties and displacement are unavoidable, all while Hamas exploits this to preserve their military capabilities, you're effectively arguing that there is no just response that Israel could engage in because it would endanger civilians. Therefore you're saying that Hamas should be immune from retaliation because of their cynical strategic planning and be emboldened to attack again. Did Hamas commit war crimes by intentionally targeting, raping, and murdering civilians? They did not go after military targets. Unlike places in Gaza where civilians have been callously put in danger by Hamas, the Israelis murdered on October 7 had no military value to Hamas.
Okay, so what do you think about the rules for women and gays under Hamas in Gaza, do you think that they have the rights they should have?
I have enough self-esteem to realize that i don't need to pay for some titles on a fan forum to feel superior to others. I also have enough awareness to realize there are many less fortunate people out there who need my money more than Clutch does. But please continue feeling superior to those who don't have the title you have. People with low self-esteem and deep insecurities need that kind of stuff.
At this point I'm waiting for him to say two things: Israel has no right to defend itself because Israel should not exist and its very presence is an act of war against Palestinians. Therefore the Israelis murdered on October 7 were military targets because they were "occupiers".
That's basically the Islamists' (and the other pro-Hamas people's, like far leftists') "logic". Boils down to "anything is justified as long as it is against Israel". And they will never answer your question about basically Hamas' tactics and the whining about the Palestinian "civilians" leading to absolutely no way for Israel to defend itself at all - because that's exactly what they want. It doesn't matter if Palestinians committed mass rapes, murders, kidnappings because "resistance by any means necessary" = justified. And it doesn't matter that their "logic" of "you must not kill any Palestinian civilians or you are committing genocide" leads to Hamas being able to attack Israel as much and in any way they want, with Israel having absolutely no way to defend itself - because that's exactly what they want. They are squarely on Hamas' side, no matter what atrocities they commit.
1. Israel has no right to defend itself in the lands they occupy. It's not me saying that, it's the international laws. 2. Majority of Israelis killed on October 7 were indeed military targets, and some the civilians who lost their lives were killed by IDF and some of them were killed on the crossfire. That's why Israel does not allow any international indepedent instution to investigate it.
Can you please clarify/confirm: When you say "in the lands they occupy", you mean "from the river to the sea" = the entire state of Israel - correct?
I don’t know the laws of Gaza. However I do know that Israeli law allows safe haven for pedophiles around the world.
According to international law Israel is an occupying state and cannot claim to defend itself. “In other words, the adamant insistence on “Israel’s right to defend itself”, is there precisely because that right is not absolute, and depends upon the paradigm in which this supposed “defense” is claimed. Israel, as the occupying power, can alter the situation by relinquishing its occupation. But since it doesn’t do that, it can’t have its cake and eat it: it can’t both occupy and claim victimhood.” https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/israels-right-to-defend-itself-from-itself/
Can you also please clarify - when you say "occupying state" - do you mean "from the river to the sea" = the entire state of Israel?
Why don't you want to answer my simple question? Which land is it that you think Israel "illegally occupies"?
