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Hamas attacks Israel: Yom Kippur War, 50 years on

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    This is as awful as that imagine music video all the celebrities made at the beginning of the pandemic.

     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    the Venn diagram of purple haired' nose-ring wearing, abortion until birth supporting wymyn, and Hamas supporters tearing down posters of missing Israeli children, is a perfect circle.
     
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  3. AroundTheWorld

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  4. basso

    basso Member
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    liberals here would rip this post down if they could.
     
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  5. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    For a side that accuses the left of trying to make everything political, it's weird to argue that doctors shouldn't treat injured people based on factors outside of their need for immediate medical care. That's the definition of "injecting politics" into a place where they don't belong.

    I probably lean too hard into realpolitik on this situation, but I have no issue with the IDF raiding this hospital. It's unfortunate that doctors and patients are there and it's unfortunate that Hamas exploited the existence of the hospital to conduct operations. Its presence shouldn't preclude Israeli forces from doing what's necessary to destroy Hamas' ability to operate from underneath it. American and Israeli intelligence say that the hospital is shielding Hamas' operations and it would be militarily stupid to leave it untouched.

    I don't have a good answer about what happens to the "human" part of "human shields" in an operation like this. If Israel were the bloodthirsty, "genocidal" regime its critics like to say it is, it would've already destroyed it from the sky. But they still care about international perception so they haven't done that.
     
    #3505 mtbrays, Nov 20, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2023
    AroundTheWorld and basso like this.
  6. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Not surprised
    Should ask people what is 9 plus 9
    Or where is Mexico located
     
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  7. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    This is such a weird talking point that I have seen everywhere. The Ukrainians don't use hospitals, schools, and churches as their military bases. They have actual military facilities. The Russians don't kill as many civilians because their enemies are not hiding behind civilians. Pull up a map of Gaza and try to find the areas that Israel can attack Hamas without killing any civilians. That's why they told the civilians to evacuate. The sad thing is that people actually fall for this nonsense.
     
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  8. basso

    basso Member
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    is anyone actually saying that? I haven't seen it.

    agreed.
     
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  9. basso

    basso Member
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  10. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Evacuate where? If tunnels are everywhere, and Hamas is believed to use them for military purposes, where are the civilians supposed to go?
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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    Egypt.
     
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  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    “The delusional fantasy that the enemy can be made to vanish has since grown. “On the Palestinian side, the ideal solution has become that Israel disappear,” Professor Shany said. “On the Israeli side, there is a desire for Gaza to go away, even if that means bombing it away. Of course, that is not a solution.””

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/20/world/middleeast/israelis-palestinians-conflict.html

    Between Israelis and Palestinians, a Lethal Psychological Chasm Grows

    In a conflict marked by complete incomprehension on both sides, the ability to see each other as human has been lost.
     
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  13. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    “Midway through the White House’s traditional pardoning of turkeys for Thanksgiving, President Biden was asked whether a deal to release hostages held by Hamas was near. “I believe so,” he said, before holding up his crossed fingers and moving on.” Adam Taylor
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    The difference is that on the Palestinian side, "the ideal solution has become that Israel disappear" has been the case from day one of Israel's existence - while on the Israeli side, most people just want to live in peace - the only reason that more people might just wish for Gaza to go away is that Palestinians just committed the largest genocide against Jewish people since the holocaust - the Israelis had been incredibly patient, even with rockets being shot at them all the time and suicide bombings happening again and again, they were just trying to get on with their lives.

    But enough is enough.
     
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    probably would have had a rifle aimed up the stairs and then blockaded the stairs with their bodies.
     
  16. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    It’s a good editorial. You should read it.

    From the start of the article:

    Eight years after the foundation of the state of Israel, Moshe Dayan, the chief of staff of the Israeli military, stood close to the Gaza border to pronounce a eulogy for a 21-year-old Israeli security officer slain by Palestinian and Egyptian assailants.

    “Let us not today cast blame on his murderers,” he said in 1956. “What can we say against their terrible hatred of us? For eight years now, they have sat in the refugee camps of Gaza and have watched how, before their very eyes, we have turned their land and villages, where they and their forefathers previously dwelled, into our home.”

    His short speech, a little longer than Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address and a powerful reference for Israelis, is perhaps recalled less for this insight into Palestinian anger than for Mr. Dayan’s resolute conclusion.

    “Without the steel helmet and the cannon’s maw, we will not be able to plant a tree and build a home,” he said.
     
  17. basso

    basso Member
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  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    So you think millions of civilians should leave their homeland when Israel has not even provided a guarantee that they would be allowed to return.
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Gaza Hospital Attack: How Al-Shifa Became a Military Target - Bloomberg

    There should be a considerable burden of proof on countries that wish to treat a hospital as a military target. War-making is hard -- as it should be.
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    the question was where should they evacuate to.
     
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