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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. Major

    Major Member

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    Israel's goal isn't about killing random people for revenge. It's to ensure Hamas doesn't just regroup and do this again in a month or a year or 10 years. People call this Israel's 9/11, but relative to their population, it's like 10 9/11's, or 30,000 Americans dead. There's no country on Earth that would agree to a ceasefire at this time in that circumstance.
     
  2. Major

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    There's no reason to believe anything Hezbollah says any more so than anyone else in that region right now. No one is going to publish their strategy in a news report.
     
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  3. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Not saying this is fact, but was going by stories like this I read.

    Israel kills 100 children daily in Gaza since October 7th of this year [EN/AR]

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupi...100-children-daily-gaza-october-7th-year-enar

    Ramallah, October 16, 2023—More than 1,000 Palestinian children in Gaza have been killed by Israeli forces since October 7 as surviving children suffer untold physical and emotional consequences as a result of intensive Israeli bombardment and unprecedented internal displacement.

    Israeli forces have killed a Palestinian child approximately every 15 minutes since the Israeli military unleashed a massive military offensive on the Gaza Strip

    https://www.dci-palestine.org/one_p...aza_killed_every_15_minutes_by_israeli_forces
     
  4. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    With careful searching there maybe an exception or two where there was not much to gain by our controlling elite. In he latest branding is our opposition to "authoritarianism". while Biden kissing up to the Saudi dictator who has proven to behead his opponents.
     
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  5. right1

    right1 Member

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    Unfortunately, some of that seems much, much easier said than done, if not impossible.
     
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  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    The Saudis and Trump family are thick as thieves. Everyone knows that. In fact, Trump loves dictators more than anybody, and it isn't even close.
     
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Nah it's about revenge. The IDF created massive amounts of poor little Bruce Waynes now dedicating the rest of their lives to the trauma they experienced.

    Nihilism helps recruitment for Hamas. The difference and Israeli government create the conditions for young Gazans to believe in nihilism.
     
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  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Trump happily does business with the Saudis. Biden reluctantly. That is essentially the moral differences here.


    The United States foreign policy apparatus has the inertia of a massive freight carrier and no single president is going to change that inertia to something more morally principled.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    So it is all Israel's fault for the choices of the people that want to kill them - you have one warped assed viewpoint.

    Riddle me this, does the Arab Muslim world that won't lift a finger to help the Palestinians bare no responsibility or is it all Israel's fault for their personal choices?

    DD
     
    #2289 DaDakota, Oct 22, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Absolutely.

    Israeli intelligence officials even agree. Inside Israeli intelligence you have members calling out Bibi stating that his regime is creating an unsustainable powder keg that is about to go off due to the sustained oppression of Palestinians.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The Arab world has the same issues about migration of a bunch of poor people in mass as Americans but their concerns are more valid especially for Egyptians because they have significantly less means than the US economy to receive such a burden on their economy.
     
  12. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    What is their strategy to get there and to prevent the emergence of another organization like Hamas in the future? (rhetorical question)

    Any government on Earth that fails to respond ceases to be a government that protects its citizens. Israel absolutely has the right to go after Hamas. But... what comes after that? We will end up back at the same basic issue in a few years if there isn't a political solution.

    ps. Bibi used the word 'vengeance' quite often. Maybe lost in cultural translation, but that sounds like revenge.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    We aren't taking in millions either - nor should we. At some point though the people have to rise up and stop their government from getting them killed.

    One would hope anyway, but that seems rarely the case, we had 300k armed military members in Afganastan that laid down their arms to give the country back to Islamists/Taliban which numbered like 50k.

    If people won't fight for their own country, how the hell will the rest of the world do that, or why should they?

    The entire middle east is in what we would call the Dark Ages, where religion is running rampant and imprisoning and oppressing people.

    All the rich people over there keeping those oil proceeds.......sick.....worse than the crap that goes on here in the USA, which is also crap.

    I don't have any answers - and I don't like what HAMAS or ISRAEL are doing - but I do not want the world getting involved - as those two work it out - I guess the USA could tell Israel to temper its' response or it would be cut off from US aide, and give an ultimatum to the people there to release all the hostages and set up a FREE ELECTION or they will go in.



    DD
     
    #2293 DaDakota, Oct 22, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
  14. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Funny how you forgot to mention how trump also supported a genocide in Yemen by supplying saudis billions of dollars of weapons. Biden ended that Yemen war and forced saudi to a ceasefire.

    It's always funny how dumb lefties are. 377k people died in the war in Yemen which trump pushed
     
  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    We had 380k people dead in Yemen and the entire nation was starving due to a blockade which trump supported and none of that ever got any news coverage. Saudi was dropping thousands of bombs every week slaughtering thousands of lives and none of that ever got any news coverage.

    Fascinating how much coverage Gaza gets when Yemen was 10000000x worst
     
  16. Major

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    This is an excellent question. Vivek Ramaswamy, who is generally a total idiot, had an interesting argument that US aid should be tied to Israel answering that question. Because there is an "eliminate Hamas" stage of this but then there has to be a plan after that.

    This is a unique opportunity for Biden, if he takes advantage. Israelis hate Bibi and love Biden right now. This is his chance to talk to Fatah and Arab nations and push for a long-term political situation, and kind of squeeze Israel into going along with it by using his popularity and US aid. It's a difficult thing to navigate, but it could be transformational for the region if he could pull it off.
     
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  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Fatah has said they don't want to touch Gaza
     
  18. Major

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    You're literally reading biased organizations reporting stories that benefit those organizations and then treating it as reality. This is a warzone - no one has good data or information at this point about this kind of stuff and everything should be taken with a grain of salt (similiar to Ukraine war totals and that's much less fog-of-war-y). But of all the sources to believe, these are not the ones to give much credence to.

    https://www.dci-palestine.org/hundr...women_and_children_killed_at_al_ahli_hospital

    Your source literally still has, on its homepage, the now largely debunked story that Israel blew up that hostipal.
     
    #2298 Major, Oct 22, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
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  19. Major

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    Pretty sure if it opens the door to a two-state solution that has been their life-long goal and there's no Hamas militant group that they are competing with, they will be happy to participate. It would be an opportunity to establish themselves as the political party that saved Palestinians.
     
  20. maypk

    maypk Member

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    The other muslim countries don't let Palestinians in to their countries because Palestinians have their OWN COUNTRY which is currently occupied by Israel.

    Why don't you just show the decency of learning a few things about the issues you'd like to have arguments with?
     

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