It was a tough question, not dumb. That was the point. But that's under the assumption the question was asked to a fan of both teams. You sound like the guy who answers "BOTH/NEITHER" to these type of questions, then acts like he dropped the mic.
I mean... he is, literally, both of those things... He's 7th all-time in manager wins and if he sticks around two more years, he's going to jump into the top 5. He's fourth all-time with 52 postseason victories. He's the only manager in history to take five different teams to the postseason. I think he is almost certainly going to the Hall of Fame as a manager. That doesn't speak to him being good/bad - but he is, by definition, historic/prolific. I don't think they "saved' his career - but they've certainly given him a second (or third, or fourth) act. But given what he inherited... I think it's unfair to categorize Baker as some passive participant to a winning juggernaut. Generally, I think fans tend to way overthink managerial impact - but here, at least, I think the scandal was a potentially big-time problem he helped them successfully navigate, and I think you can see his impact in how much the players love him.
This last part is the crucial part of why Dusty was hired and why he continues to be the manager. The Astros going into the 2020 season and during the 2020 regular season the Astros were a dispirited team. They looked like they didn't want to be there and even with the crazy COVID season they limped into the playoffs under 500. All the talk nationally was that the Astros run was over. Jose Altuve was never going to be the same player. The team would likely be dismantled and the Stros would go back to being mediocre. Dusty Baker was one the most respected figures in baseball and also a noted player's manager. He helped to rehabilitate the Astros and bring the team back together. He wasn't brought in to be some tactical genius or some new school analytics manager. I don't think even Crane and the ownership expected Dusty to have as much success as he has had. I get it that as fans we're frustrated with the managing. That's the nature of fandom in the age of the Internet that coaching decisions get dissected and criticized. Dusty's record though wasn't guaranteed with this team and given what this team went throught in the past few years it's not certain that there are other managers who could've kept this team together and focussed as much.
I have this longstanding idea that because we watch the Astros - almost exclusively - we assume no one else is experiencing the same problems we're seeing. And the truth is that the vast majority of fans are unhappy with their favorite team's coach/manager. Even in good times. Look at the Dodgers: there is a large contingent of fans who want to run Dave Roberts - far and away their most successful manager ever - out of town. They, too, scream about his line-ups, and pitching changes, and this decision and that decision... And maybe they're right. My point is only that... Astros fans are not close to being alone in their frustration with their manager/coach. Eagles fans could not wait to run Andy Reid out of town. In baseball, specifically - I really don't think line-ups and pitching changes make/break seasons. They're not unimportant - and in a short playoff series, they can obviously be amplified. But I really believe the most important element a manager can bring to the table is how they manage the clubhouse. It's 25 guys who want... ~19-20 regular spots, and navigating all the complexities and egos associated with that, not to mention the long, grinding season... that's where a manager can really make their mark. With the Astros, they had the added hurdle of the scandal and with the *wrong* manager, 2020 really could've been a critical turning point. So, sure - on June 27, Baker should've played so-and-so. But, overall, I think he was a low-key genius hire - based on where the team was in 2020 - and if you don't believe he's responsible for any success since, he at least has stayed enough out of the way to, frankly, have a better run than Hinch with a team not nearly as loaded.
I don't live in Houston so other than here I don't follow the Astros or other Houston teams much. In fact I don't get to see too many Houston games. You're right a lot of what you hear about Dusty other fan bases complain a lot about their managers and coaches. The Twins fan base bellyache about the Rocco Boldelli for being too much into analytics and not relying upon things or feel. And few fanbases and local media compare to how hard it is in NYC.
Except... Dusty is a laissez faire manager that preaches calm.... the fire in the Astros came from the leadership of Verlander, Correa, and Bregman. The latter has revealed significant frustration for the lack of urgency. When's the last time you actually saw Dusty stand up for a player not named Martin? He threw Chas into the doghouse... downplayed Yainer... kept running Jose Abreu out there when the solution was to load manage...
Sure there's a lot to criticize Dusty for lineup decisions. I've been yelling at the screen everytime Maldy comes up to bat with RISP. Dusty was not brought in because of that but because he would be a calming steadying hand at a time the Astros were in turmoil.
Also Dusty's hiring was a message to the rest of the MLB. The Astros were seen as this having this win at all cost franchise that didn't care about the traditions or even the ethics of baseball.. That was the main point of the Astros Edge, that it wasn't so much about the cheating but that Luhnow had created this culture that was driven by a Wall Street sensibility that all that matters was victory. That's why Crane brought in one of the true old school managers. One of the longest serving and respected managers to appeal to "baseball guys" and MLB tradition.
Firing him during the ALCS could not possibly be taken to mean anything other than "get out". Do not pass go, do not collect $200, and do not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!!!! What do you suppose could possibly be mixed about that message?
You say it like its a bad thing that the Astros aren't a panicky bunch and just slowly and steadily keep winning. I guess they could have been more like the Braves and Dodgers and gone all-out all season long and then freak out and shrivel up when things don't go perfectly in the playoffs.
The Astros have gotten worse under Dusty - their fundamentals are lacking, they don't work the pitcher anymore, he holds onto vets when there are promising young guys that are better. He has to go. DD
Agreed. 2020 - ALCS Game 7 2021 - WS Game 6 (loss) 2022 - WS Game 6 (win) Just keep getting worse. Stupid Dusty relying on vets like Yuli and Abreu. Dumb Astros only scoring 3-4 runs in the first inning instead of working the pitchers.
U stick with dusty until he wants to retire. With all this success we are having firing him sends bad juju. We are still chugging along even after key departures
