1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,618
    Likes Received:
    14,352
    The Saudis control(lled) more of the precious spice.

    Ukraine is important geopolitically, hence the attention by Russia and the US, but Saudi has been more important. Also depends on how committed Europe is, seems like it's pretty balkanized.
     
  2. Commodore

    Commodore Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    33,578
    Likes Received:
    17,552
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    Again. Russia invaded Ukraine.

    Ukraine wasn’t a member of NATO when Russia invaded, it’s still not a member and likely won’t be a member anytime soon.

    The rest of your arguments arent even worth addressing if you continue to deny this basic fact.
     
    Nook, SamFisher and ROCKSS like this.
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,240
    Yes, you are dense. Judo has the answer in the quote below. That you don’t know this already equals you being as dense as a chunk of lead.

     
    Andre0087 and ROCKSS like this.
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,096
    Likes Received:
    3,608
    https://libertarianinstitute.org/ne...s-oppose-fighting-want-diplomatic-end-to-war/

    A recent poll found that the number of Ukrainians who want to fight Russia until the end of the war has fallen to 60%. President Volodymyr Zelensky has tight control over media in Ukraine, and his regime has targeted dissenters against fighting the war.

    The Gallup survey results released on Monday shows support for “fighting until the war is won” has fallen to 60% from 70% last year. The number of Ukrainians wanting to seek a diplomatic resolution has increased from 25% to 31% over the past 12 months. Support for finding an end to the war is strongest in the regions where fighting is ongoing.

    Support is still strong among CC members who are encouraging support for five or more years of the war
     
    astros123 and Amiga like this.
  6. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,770
    Likes Received:
    22,548
    Who wanted a long war other than Russia/Putin? (well at least after he initially got embarrassed and had to pivot to a drawn out defensive strategy).

    Nobody wanted a draw out war. Especially Ukrainians. Nobody discouraged diplomacy, and if you were actually paying attention to the months leading up to the war, the Biden admin was engaged on a daily basis and it was reported too even by the MSM that they were trying like hell to use diplomacy to discourage Putin from invading.

    Putin's strategy here is to play the long game because he understands how the politics work, and how unpopular stalemates are. Especially with the West/US. That's why PUTIN IS THE ONE not engaging in any diplomatic efforts that I'm sure are happening behind the scenes. He has no incentive to engage in diplomacy. NOTHING. Not one single reason to. However everyone else does have an incentive to come to a quick diplomatic solution. Joe Biden SURE AS HELL has incentive to do so politically.

    I just don't understand why in every comment you post here... nothing... not one shred of blame goes to Vladamir Putin... He's the one doing this to Ukraine, and forcing the West to either support or abandon Ukraine. This is on him. Nobody asked for this. So why are you so damn critical of the people at least trying here, and being tight lipped about the people who are actually causing the problem that nobody asked for????

    Please be more objective here Glynch.
     
    Deckard likes this.
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,234
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Because people like yourself like to point out problems instead of finding solutions. We all obviously know Putin started the war and pointing it out endlessly is not a solution.
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,157
    Likes Received:
    23,445
    Some of the #:

    60% fight to the end (to Win)
    31% seek a diplomatic solution
    81% approval for Zelenskyy
    91% said Win = reclaim back all territory, including Crimea
    95% confidence in the military

    Regions closet to the front line most likely to favor a quick resolution. As time drag on, this will expand.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,240
    You are so predictable. Your reply to @dobro1229’s post is typical. Devoid of substance.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,234
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    Just like your reply to me?
     
  11. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,770
    Likes Received:
    22,548
    No the framing of every argument from you and others always paints the situation as if Biden and Democrats are god like magicians who have the power at the stroke of a wand to make people do whatever it is we want them to do.

    Every argument you make completely removes the agency of Putin or MAGA republicans. There’s nothing wrong with being critical of Democrats but the way you do it speaks volumes.

    So tell me this then if you want us to take you seriously… what exactly should Biden do right now that he has the power to do that he hasn’t already been doing. Be specific and also speak to the ramifications for everyone, and justify how you are okay with that.
     
    astros123, DaDakota and Deckard like this.
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,240
    You are getting what you deserve.
     
    astros123 likes this.
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,234
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    We both deserve peace, love and respect.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,234
    Likes Received:
    8,612
    As I have been stating, Ukraine is not our problem. Its Europes problem. Let them handle it. I understand; Ukraine will fall and Russia will be embolden to take some other eastern countries who are not part of NATO. However its time we start looking out for ourselves. Think of the 21st Century New Deal.

    What the United States should be doing; Not Biden. Not the DNC. Not the RNC. Americans - We should be turning the government over to the younger generation. Age and term limit debates aside, we need to remove the elder generation from active politics. Additionally, all this social discourse needs to take the back state at this point. Our country is facing serious issues. Transgenderism is no longer (or ever was) the country's biggest problem. The LGBT alphabet has come a long ways

    We need to decouple ourselves (the Dollar) from the world reserve currency. This is extremely difficult. It no longer serves the citizens of this country well as it did 20+ years ago. We also need to pull back support, both military and monetary, from the global stage. We should instead focus it on Latin America and help develop the neighbors south of us. We should be pouring massive amounts of manufacturing infrastructure into Mexico. We should focus on countries who have a promising future, like India. We shouldn't ostracize China like we have done with Russia.

    Domestically, we need public works jobs. Vastly improve the infrastructure. We need to stop letting environmental groups, bought and paid for by competitors, to impede progress. SpaceX is a great example. Regardless of peoples petty problems with the man child known as Musk, space is the next boom and SpaceX is the cutting edge.
    The Healthcare cartel needs to be crushed.
    The education system needs to be re-evaluated and revamped. Sports needs to be completely removed from the education system. Trade schools sponsored by industry should be heavily encouraged. Employment shouldn't be driven by an over priced piece of paper.
    We also should open our borders completely to students abroad. This is something we have always done and its paid off in spades.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    Really because some posters still repeat things like "We encouraged Ukraine to fight this war."

    I'm also going to point out that not only did Russia invade Ukraine in February 2022 they took Crimea in 2014 and have been supporting Russian separatists in Donbas since 2012.

    There would be no discussion of Ukraine joining NATO for the last few years if Russia hadn't done any of those.
     
    Deckard and astros123 like this.
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    That's a lot of stuff that has little to do with Ukraine. You might as well say,
    We should be focussing on getting the Stros to hit better against Twins pitching than focus on Ukraine.
     
    Deckard, dobro1229 and astros123 like this.
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,923
    Likes Received:
    41,482
    LOL what a lickspittle - all roads lead back to Elon Musk for @Space Ghost
     
    Deckard, dobro1229 and astros123 like this.
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1999
    Messages:
    32,939
    Likes Received:
    20,738
    I call BS.

    [​IMG]

    @Space Ghost wants to follow in the steps of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain and appease a war monger like Putin. How did that work out for Chamberlain?
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,437
    Likes Received:
    40,009
    Isolationism never works it leads to a bigger war....and more lives are lost.



    Agreed, Term limits and age limits would help.

    As long as the world currency is the dollar we have far more influence....so this is just a terrible idea....Isolationism is not the answer.

    Decent - National health care is cheaper and a must.


    Will never happen and is completely inconsequential to anything.



    Not only should trade schools be funded, but we should up the minimum wage to $25 an hour where it should be.

    You are batting about .400....

    DD
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,096
    Likes Received:
    3,608
    Agreed Russia invaded. Well, again Putin and also Biden made NATO non-negotiable. Putin has at least arguable reason. What was Biden's?

    Of course you theorize and therefore accept as fact that Putin would have invaded anyway. Of course since Putin is the new crazy incarnation of pure evil i.e the new Hitler, Stalin, Sadam Hussein, Qadafi, Noriega, XI in China whoever is leading Iran -- am I forgetting someone? that justifes invasions, war, killing sacntions etd.
     

Share This Page