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Israel Goes To War with Hamas 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, Oct 6, 2023.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    OCTOBER 09, 2023
    Joint Statement on Israel

    Today, the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States of America released the following joint statement following their call:

    Today, we — President Macron of France, Chancellor Scholz of Germany, Prime Minister Meloni of Italy, Prime Minister Sunak of the United Kingdom, and President Biden of the United States — express our steadfast and united support to the State of Israel, and our unequivocal condemnation of Hamas and its appalling acts of terrorism.

    We make clear that the terrorist actions of Hamas have no justification, no legitimacy, and must be universally condemned. There is never any justification for terrorism. In recent days, the world has watched in horror as Hamas terrorists massacred families in their homes, slaughtered over 200 young people enjoying a music festival, and kidnapped elderly women, children, and entire families, who are now being held as hostages.

    Our countries will support Israel in its efforts to defend itself and its people against such atrocities. We further emphasize that this is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage.

    All of us recognize the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people, and support equal measures of justice and freedom for Israelis and Palestinians alike. But make no mistake: Hamas does not represent those aspirations, and it offers nothing for the Palestinian people other than more terror and bloodshed.

    Over the coming days, we will remain united and coordinated, together as allies, and as common friends of Israel, to ensure Israel is able to defend itself, and to ultimately set the conditions for a peaceful and integrated Middle East region.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    Actually a very good (and sobering) read, thanks for posting.
     
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  3. AroundTheWorld

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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    There's literally no credible source in that link. Why do you do this? Seriously why are you right wingers so God damn gullible. Where's the evidence.

    Why are right wingers so damn brainwashed. Like why.
     
    #724 astros123, Oct 10, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
    cdastros likes this.
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  6. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

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    It’s not hard to understand. Left wingers are just as, if not more, stupid and brainwashed lol. The media is the media and it’s the evil of all. I blame the internet and mostly social media for the ignorance in society that exist today. It’s just going to get worse.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    So you are saying Biden was wrong with his prediction?
     
  8. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  9. AroundTheWorld

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  10. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Lefties aka bernie bros are just as toxic for America than some of the far right. I've never disagreed with that. If we can jam all of MAGA + BERNIE BROS in a spaceship and send it to mars id be first to pay for it

    Biden made that comment in reference to needing to support a coalition government in Afghanistan after al qaeda fell. That was the context of that speech. We did train and spend 100 billion dollars in training the Afghan government



    Why don't you ask WHEREE THE HELL DID THE 100 BILLION GO THAT WE TRAINED THE AFGHAN army. It's so ridiculous that biden should've taken up the military equipment back after we literally trained the Afghan army.

    Ukraine people stayed and fight while Afghans didn't. You can't predict willpower
     
    #730 astros123, Oct 10, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
  11. LosPollosHermanos

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    As did ukranian weapons that they had been auctioning off!
     
  12. LosPollosHermanos

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    Comparing the two is kind of stupid tbh
     
  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Why are you lying ? There's zero evidence of that. That Afghan report is literally some report from a hamas journalist. There's zero evidence on that link

    Why are you so gullible to disinformation? Like why? You can't think objectively?
     
  14. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I don’t see a link for that first image post. Looks like disinformation.
     
  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The source is literally some hamas reporter who wants to blow up Israel. It's just insane how disinformation spreads like wildfire
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

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    so much cognitive dissonance
     
  17. LosPollosHermanos

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    Equating sympathy for the Palestinian people , a group that has been systematically oppressed and subjected to great human rights violations to an evil like hammas is an extremely dangerous game. I don’t understand why people keep equating the two.

    the people criticizing Israel for retaliating and the people criticizing any support for Palestinian people contribute to the ongoing problem
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It’s difficult because Hamas is Palestinian and is fighting in the name of Palestinians. They also control a big part of Palestinian territory.

    this is largely the problem with this conflict. The extremist largely dictate it. As other voices have either been weakened to the point of irrelevance or in the case if Rabin assasinated.
     
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  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It’s also easier to view the other side as being complete evil. As all of them as being the enemy.
     
  20. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    What Will Russia Do With Gaza Chaos?
    A possible two-front war in the Middle East will have knock-on effects for Europe.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/10/09/russia-gaza-chaos-israel-ukraine-pentagon/

    October 9, 2023, 2:21 PM
    BRUSSELS—European officials and experts are concerned that Russia could exploit the chaos surrounding the Hamas attack on Israel, pushing the Kremlin even closer to Iran, which is allied with the Palestinian militant group.

    There is no sign that Russia provided material support—or even had advance notice—prior to the surprise attack on Saturday, which has left at least 900 Israelis dead and scores more kidnapped and taken into the Gaza Strip, where Israel has begun retaliatory strikes. Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said on Monday that he’d ordered a full siege of the area. “No power, no food, no gas, everything is closed,” he said.

    But Hamas receives significant backing from Iran, an increasingly close ally of the Kremlin that has provided thousands of suicide drones for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The attack on Israel, one of America’s closest allies, not only has created the possibility of a two-front war in the Middle East but has also stretched U.S. and European armories and political willpower. The crisis comes at a time when the West was already having trouble summoning more ammunition and money to support Ukraine’s counteroffensive.

    The “Russians would be interested in fragmenting the West and creating additional problems,” former Latvian Defense Minister Artis Pabriks said. “It all has to be done simultaneously. [The] Russians hope somebody will say it’s too hard.”

    Russia is likely to tread lightly, given long-standing historical and diplomatic connections to Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Russian President Vladimir Putin have forged close ties over the years, with the Kremlin supporting Israel’s concerns over Hezbollah tunnels dug from Lebanon under the Israeli border and even forming a joint task force to discuss withdrawing all foreign troops from Syria.

    The Kremlin has not condemned the Hamas attack. Israel has also stopped short of a full-throated condemnation of Russia’s war on Ukraine and took a neutral stance on Russia’s illegal annexation of the Crimean Peninsula in 2014, before condemning the move four years later.

    Hundreds of thousands of Russian citizens reside in Israel, and around 1.5 million Israelis speak Russian. Israel has backed Ukraine diplomatically but has not provided weapons despite its $12 billion arms industry. Russia is hoping Israel will continue to stay out of the fray in that war, said Jonathan Lord, a senior fellow and director of the Middle East security program at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington-based think tank. “However, if Russia’s back is further and further up against a wall in Ukraine, Iran will be in a position to demand more,” such as asking Russia for air defense systems for itself or for its proxies; for advanced fighter jets; or even for help in filling gaps in its nuclear program.

    “That’s going to have direct repercussions on Israeli security and the security of the region,” Lord said.

    Though the United States has already pledged more support for Israel, the European response wasn’t immediately clear. On Monday, European countries are expected to huddle internally about the prospect of providing military aid to Israel, but many officials fear their governments are already tapped out from Ukraine. “We face a huge ammo shortage due to Ukraine,” said one German official who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

    European officials hope that Israel’s declaration of war will be a wake-up call for the continent about the threat of terrorism emanating from the Palestinian territories, which has gone on the back burner as Europe has focused on providing aid and centering its counterterrorism posture on Africa. “I hope the EU will drop any illusions regarding Palestine and the ruling powers there,” said a European diplomat speaking on the condition of anonymity. The European diplomat expressed particular concern about the Tehran-Russia link.

    Pabriks, the former Latvian defense minister, said European governments are likely to help Israel assess the country’s intelligence failures in the lead-up to Hamas’s attack and determine which countries helped support the militant group. The Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday that Iran helped Hamas prepare for the attack and gave the green light for the assault a week ago. Iran’s conventional ground game has improved exponentially in the last decade.

    Michael Doran, an expert at the Hudson Institute, told Foreign Policy that Iran’s Quds Force, a special unit of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that has helped build battle-ready proxies for Tehran around the Middle East, had assisted Hamas in improving its tactical acumen. Hamas was able to breach the Gaza fence and overrun Israeli villages, using paragliders and homemade rockets against one of the most technologically advanced militaries in the world.

    Austria announced on Monday that it would suspend all Palestinian aid—nearly $20 million—in response to the Hamas attack. Germany and the European Union both followed suit in suspending aid. But even after the Israeli flag was splashed on London’s Buckingham Palace and Berlin’s Brandenburg Gate over the weekend, experts are worried that support for Israel could fade as it faces ongoing questions about its human rights record in the Palestinian territories.


    “They need to support Israel politically when the going gets rough,” Doran said. “This operation in Gaza will take time, and Hamas will try to ratchet up the pressure. Expect pro-Palestine rallies in European capitals and videos from Gaza of European hostages begging to come home if only Israel will stop its military operations.”

    “Europe stands in solidarity with Israel today, but where will it be three weeks from now?” Doran added.

    Israel will have to keep its front-line guns reloaded for the coming ground invasion but will also need a stockpile of precision-guided munitions to try to dislodge Hamas in Gaza while dealing with the risk of friendly fire, as Israeli citizens and foreigners are being held hostage in one of the most densely populated areas in the world.

    Right now, with no U.S. speaker of the House in place to shepherd more weapons to Israel through Congress after Rep. Kevin McCarthy was ousted last week, the United States is directing what assistance it can from the White House. Israel has asked for more Iron Dome missile interceptors, ammunition, small diameter bombs, and closer intelligence cooperation ahead of a likely ground invasion of Gaza, the Washington Post reported on Sunday.

    The United States has already approved Israel’s use of prepositioned stockpiles of U.S.-made precision-guided munitions in the region and announced on Sunday that it would send the USS Gerald R. Ford aircraft carrier, four guided missile destroyers, and a guided missile cruiser to the Eastern Mediterranean. The Defense Department will also deploy squadrons of F-35s, F-15s, F-16s, and A-10 ground attack aircraft.

    In NATO countries, close U.S. allies see Israel’s war—another challenge on top of supporting Ukraine’s defense—as the ultimate test of walking and chewing gum. And between Russia and Iran, it’s also a test of their new alliance.

    “They’ve become allies with Iran, perhaps the closest of allies, and are helping each other with this Hamas attack on Israel,” said retired U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, who commanded U.S. forces in Europe.
     

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