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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    Please think about this statement long and hard. There is a long term play and ideological issue here that I don’t think you fully appreciate
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  2. glynch

    glynch Member

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    It could be changing but we still want the war.

    When you get down to it our small bipartisan geo-politcal elite thought it was a good deal to weaken Russia without American deaths. A good chance to make some juicy military industrial profits so we encouraged the Ukrainians to unrealistically go to war rather than accept about three things: 1). No joining NATO a totally US subservient primarily anti-Russian military alliance (however see Lybya, Serbia an Iraq) which would lead to moving our nukes up against the Russian border. 2) no Quebec style Ukrainian federation with the Russian ethnics in the Donbas Region and 3) surrender of Crimea which has been under Russian control or a part of Russia since around 1760.

    Sadly this preventable war is resulting in Ukraine having hundreds of thousand killed, millions in exile who will not return to the totally destroyed economy and actual loss of Ukrainian territory ,the size of which is growing as often happens in wars when you lose. Other negative effects are a depression in Germany and Europe, a worsening of the refugee crisis even though they are white. In the US the debacle might even help Trump or the Repugs in 2024.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    which is why I've been so critical of Biden's incrementalism. Ukraine has/had a short window to win and expel the Russian army from all of Ukraine. that window is closing quickly, if it hasn't already.
     
  4. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don't know how the Ukraine military did it, but they laid waste to the major warships guarding the Kerch Bridge, and then took out the bridge. Both the railroad and the vehicle bridges. Incredible! Crimea is in huge trouble. Several warships were sunk, and numerous armored vehicles of various types that were caught on the bridge.

    Apparently, the attack was from missiles fired from the land (how??), and then attacks from the air. Both amazingly effective. Putin has to be freaking out. Maybe he'll have a heart attack and that'll bring the war to an end. We should be so lucky. It would depress Mr. trump, wouldn't it.

     
    #14344 Deckard, Oct 8, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2023
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  5. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

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    Video info literally says not real footage, just arma 3 gameplay..
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Video games FTW!

    DD
     
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  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    If so, they did a hell of a great job!
     
    #14347 Deckard, Oct 8, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
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  8. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    This is a real fascinating interview with an American specialist on China, one with a "middle of the road" view, with the focus on China's relationship with Russia and it's appearance of "backing away" from close relations with Putin's regime for reasons that are discussed with the excellent interviewer from Times Radio of the London Times Newspaper.

    It's essentially a podcast, but a video podcast. One you can watch, which I prefer, or one you can listen to if you wish. i post these from time to time. They are well done and the guests are often very knowledgeable and well spoken. Definitely worth watching.

    China distances from Putin as Xi prepares for potential war over Taiwan | Frontline

     
    #14348 Deckard, Oct 9, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    We encouraged Ukraine to go to war?

    Russia invaded Ukraine.
     
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  10. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    If Ukraine didn’t want it, it shouldn’t have dressed that way.
     
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  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    CODE PINK ALERT

     
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  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don’t know where @glynch gets this stuff. A nice guy, but often badly informed. Not that he’s alone in that respect.
     
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  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Hint: you can see it from Sarah Palin's house..
     
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  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Close to a possible agreement. The NATO part won't cut it. An agreement that Ukraine will not join NATO which the US and NATO agrees to in writing may do it. However, even that would be hard to do. Zelenski especially and even Biden will have a hard time with their political careers doing this when they passed up better deals before Russia was winning and Ukraine, but not the US paid such a horrible price.
     
  15. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Easy to be patient
    Easy to be patient for another 5 years of war, but I doubt Ukraine can las that long.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Do you know that the war is being fought in Ukraine? Yet you are so sure Russia is bleeding more?
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

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    We declined a chance to not have the war, but we made NATO membership non-negotiable.
     
  18. astros123

    astros123 Member
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    Again you're spewing bullshit. Putin demanded that all NATO technology from any eastern european country that joined NATO post 1997 had to dismantle. That was his demand to not to have the war AND removing ukraine from nato forever.

    That's a threat not a demand. Why do you lie so much?
     
    #14358 astros123, Oct 9, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
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  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Again, @glynch, you're getting bad information. We never made "becoming a member of NATO non-negotiable." We never offered it prior to Russia's invasion. If you saw that somewhere, you were seeing Russian propaganda.
     
    astros123 and Nook like this.
  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Dense.
    By getting in a conflict with Russia, it makes them ineligible for at least a decade. I understand you dont give a **** about established rules, but Ukraine is not getting NATO membership without making NATO look inept.
     

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