Because JG has been in a dysfunctional organization and hasn't had a legit coach during his 3 years in the league, I think we should reserve judgement on his defensive potential. He has never been challenged to become a complete player. Fortunately, he's still only 21 years-old and seems determined to improve his shortcomings. IMO, he can become a plus defender down the line if he sets his mind to it. We should not put limits on him yet. I expect JG to struggle on both ends of the floor early in the season before eventually adapting. I expect the Sengun, Jabari and Amen lovers will enjoy this and feast on him for a while.
When I say secondary skill I’m talking about either being high level to being elite at it. Think Kawhi and Jimmy butler for defense, Harden or Trae Young for playmaking. Jalen can definitely improve his defense to a neutral level, maybe even slightly positive if we are being optimistic- but he is never going to be an elite defender just due to his slight build. No, the pathway to stardom for him has to be playmaking, and while he will never be a Harden or Trae at passing, which is why he won’t be that level of a player(all nba), his playmaking can be good enough where he is allstar caliber imo.
Player Height Weight Gary Payton 6'4" 190 Micheal Cooper 6'5" 170 Dennis Johnson 6'4" 185 Joe Dumars 6'3" 195 Rajon Rondo 6'1" 185 Chris Paul 6'0" 175 Patrick Beverly 6'2" 180 Alex Caruso 6'5" 186 Just listing a few players from history that have made the NBA all defensive teams (most of them multiple times) with similar heights and weights as Jalen. I think that we can both agree that his build would not appear to be a limiting factor as players shorter and lighter (slighter?) than him (looking at you Micheal Cooper) have been defensive standouts or as you put it "elite". For Jalen it will all come down to effort and nothing I have seen from him indicates that when held accountable he will not give the effort. When I see statements like "...he is never going to be and elite defender" I wonder what crystal ball you are using to predict this. I mean just comparing their builds (not their roles or mindsets) do you really believe that Jalen can't be a better defender than Alex Caruso? ... and no I'm not saying the Alex Caruso is an "elite" defender, but dude made the All NBA Defensive First Team last year so I'm thinking his build didn't limit his defensive abilities too much.
The players you listed were all positive defenders from day 1, none of them were hugely negative for the first two seasons of their career and then suddenly flipped the switch, that just doesn’t happen. And I do consider Caruso to be elite on defense.
I'm beginning to agree with @fchowd0311 regarding you moving goal posts. First you said he would NEVER be an elite defender because of his slight build and when I showed you that there have been other elite defenders with slight builds you move to "..they were plus defenders from day 1". What is the issue with people today just admitting that they were wrong with a particular take especially when FACTS show otherwise and just admitting that their take is based on FEELINGS. For whatever reason you don't FEEL that Jalen will be a good defender and just leave it at that. It would take too much time to pull together the data proving to you that there have been other players that didn't come into the league as plus defenders from day one and became good to great defenders, but I think you know that there are examples out there (Klay Thompson is one that comes to mind). I think (FEEL) that he can be a good\great defender based on the FACT that he will be in a system with more emphasis being placed on effort and accountability. I don't think that he'll be asked to be an elite defender as they will still depend on his scoring as the primary contribution to the team. In any regard your original statement regarding him never being elite because of his build is WRONG and I just wanted to kill that narrative as I've seen it more than once on this board.
I said he can be a passable defender, even a positive one. What I said is that he won’t ever be an elite one, examples being Kawhi and Butler. That isn’t remotely close to a hot take and I would venture that 99% of reasonable observers would agree with that. Further, that’s not even a knock on Jalen because my conclusion was that it is playmaking that can take him to the next level. How any of this is taken as a slight on Jalen is truly perplexing. If you want to hear me say Jalen can become Kawhi or Butler to “admit I’m wrong” then I am sorry but I will not stoop to that kind of delusion.
Nah dude the decision making of Green is so horrendous that the Rockets will make sure that FVV and Sengun will initiate all possessions. Green won't have any opportunity to be a playmaker **** off dude. Your starting position is "Green sucks, how can I do slights to him" and as someone baited in like me addressed all your preconceived points, you move goal posts because your stetting position is Twitter narratives
Jalen as a fleshed out offensive supernova and simply a plus defender is a championship level player. Durant has never been an elite defender and frankly neither has Lebron. If Jalen can get to Jaylen Brown/Jason Tatum level then we'd be in business. Kobe's defense has largely been overrated as well. Pretty much George Costanza. If you look angry people think you're playing defense.
lol. This is why it is impossible to have a conversation with deluded only fans. Green’s on ball reps will go down this season, that is a guarantee. Sengun’s on ball reps will go up this season, that is a guarantee. And Fred will be Fred, he will be the engine. None of this means Green will never be a playmaker, just that it won’t be a focus of the team - he will be more of a play finisher. This is a great thing for Green and for his development into a positive contributor. Further, as he improves his playmaking, we can still scale that up since Fred is equally good off ball. For any reasonable observer this would sound like an ENDORSEMENT of Green. But to deranged Karen onlyfans it is blasphemous. Get a grip.
Listen buddy, your starting position is that you don’t want to have a basketball conversation, you just want to suck Green off and ride him all night, y’all need to go get a room instead of arguing with me on an internet forum.
"Green's on ball reps will go down" You want me to quote your comments dude? That line also suggests you actually don't read anything I type. I literally said Green will have a more balanced on ball and off ball attack this season. For example he had more primary PnR ball handling possessions than our starting pg last season and that type of possession is usually is dominated by the starting pg of a team. So I literally stayed agreement to that one line I quoted from you. If that is literally all you said then you think I'd give a ****? I'd be like "ya, I agree". Your diction was very apparent you wanted Green to have a KJ Martin role. No, FVV and Sengun aren't going to initiate everything. Literally one of the main reasons we brought FVV over was his versatility in playing a floor general and playing off ball and the Rockets organization wanted that because they understand they have 21 year old hyper talented guys who need on ball reps.
I want you to provide an example in this back and forth where I had to move goal posts because you inundated me with actual on court basketball talk and data? The pattern of conversation is you stating vague assertions of what roles players will have with no backing outside of you misquoting and putting extreme emphasis on one liner quotes from the staff.
You don't have to admit anything, but you WERE WRONG. You said Jalen could never be an elite defender because of his slight build. I showed you that there were other elite defenders with similar (and even slighter builds). You even said that you consider Alex Caruso to be an elite defender. Watch this video and tell where he does one thing that Jalen is not capable of doing. I'll wait... The only difference I see when watching this video is that Caruso is putting forth more effort, stays in good defensive position (even when screened) and when occasionally beat hustles to get back into the play. All things Jalen is not only capable of doing, but I'd venture to say with his athleticism is capable of doing even better. I'm not going to continue to beat this dead horse as you've now moved to some strawman argument of Jalen having to be Jimmy Butler or Kawhi to be elite defensively. I certainly never said that, but I understand you clutching at those straws to keep from saying you were wrong... so let's just agree that Jalen can be a better version of Alex Caruso on defense and by your definition that would certainly make him elite... right?
lol I’m not providing you with sht when you already proved that you can’t handle the slightest of criticisms of the player you obsess over even when it’s not even criticism. Get help.
No, Jalen will never come close to Caruso on defense, Jalen will never be first team all defense. I try to compliment Green and show a path that he can reach stardom and y’all have to bring on this kind of delusion and then it makes me look like a hater when I have to shut it down. Saying the only thing that separates Caruso on defense is effort is like saying the only thing that separates Jalen from Steph is just shoot better. I cannot roll my eyes hard enough.
Advanced metrics have Caruso as one of the best defenders in the entire league. Same stats have Jalen as one of the worst. JuSt tRy HaRdEr. Bruh I’m out of here, this is getting dumb.
