Robert F. Kennedy Jr. launches unlikely presidential bid as a Democrat

The problem is if the wrong kids get the measles, they die. Get the ****ing vaccine. Same with Chicken Pox. There is no reason not to.

There is a reason schools require vaccines before young kids can attend. Why risk others unnecessarily?

 

There is no reason not to? Tell that to other western countries like the UK whose health board that does not recommend the chicken pox vaccine because it is directly causing a rise in shingles at younger ages (adults don't get naturally boosted by being around infected kids with chicken pox). The rare "you can have complications" is not enough of an incentive. It's like saying "don't go boating because you could get in a boating accident, better to stay on land", or an even better example "don't exercise because you could have a heart attack, it's better to be sedentary".

and there are several studies which show being vaccinated against a certain disease is great for fighting that particular disease but that it can make many people prone to other ailments. this is something people like RFK Jr want more studies on but these studies by our official health boards in the US get blocked or are half-assed. we are always having to use data from studies done by other countries. I wonder why

 

I get it. Each to their own. Personally, I think some people don’t deserve the effort of countering. I would always give it a try, but when I sense someone is trolling, living in la la land, or worse, using you for their own benefit, it’s time to move on. In the case of RFK, countering him gave him the platform to spread more dangerous misinformation about vaccines. The way he does it, as I mentioned before, is very specific in how he manipulates and selects data to tell a story. It’s not easy to counter at all, and the attempt usually ends up being like spitting water on a blazing fire, only adding more fuel to sustain it. Sometimes, it’s better to let it naturally burn out on its own.

 

If those studies are so earth shattering why is there such a great need to stop saving peoples lives by providing vaccines just because you want more studies.

Do you mind sharing said studies?

Saying Studies (not specifically noting one) show we need more studies isn’t a great indication that the study you are referencing to make the argument is very compelling.

 

@rocketsjudoka here is one example and I'm outta here.

"the UK whose health board that does not recommend the chicken pox vaccine because it is directly causing a rise in shingles at younger ages"

You want to counter this? Here is the information you would need:

From 2015: https://elifesciences.org/for-the-p...ase-shingles-cases-but-mainly-in-young-adults

• Vaccinating children against chickenpox reduces the likelihood that adults will be re-exposed to chickenpox. This is because there are fewer cases of chickenpox circulating overall when vaccination rates are high.
• Re-exposure to chickenpox boosts adults' immunity against shingles, which is caused by the same virus (Varicella zoster). So vaccinating kids against chickenpox can temporarily increase shingles cases in adults, as they lose this natural immunity boost.
• Previous models predicted this rise in shingles would mostly affect older adults (60+). But this new model shows the effect is stronger in 31-40 year olds - younger than thought. This is good news as younger adults are less prone to severe shingles symptoms.
• The new model also finds re-exposure only boosts shingles immunity for 2 years, much less than the previously estimated 20 years.
• These findings should ease concerns about implementing universal childhood chickenpox vaccination, as the shingles effect is temporary, most pronounced in younger less at-risk adults, and immunity boosting is shorter than thought.
• Some countries like the US and Australia have implemented chickenpox vaccination, but others have hesitated due to potential shingles effects. This new data should encourage more widespread vaccination.

From 2019: https://www.scientificamerican.com/...pox-vaccine-lowers-shingles-risk-in-children/

• The varicella vaccine given to children at age 1 to prevent chickenpox also cuts their risk of shingles (caused by the same virus) by over 50% compared to unvaccinated kids.
• Vaccinated kids had 38 cases of shingles per 100,000 annually vs 170 per 100,000 in unvaccinated kids.
• Getting both doses of the vaccine leads to even lower shingles rates than just one dose.
• Chickenpox can be severe, but is rare in kids. The vaccine has made it even rarer.
• Even unvaccinated kids had a 72% decline in shingles from 2003-2014 likely due to herd immunity from the vaccine reducing chickenpox rates overall.
• But unvaccinated kids remain susceptible to chickenpox and shingles as they age. The vaccine protects against shingles long-term.
• This provides strong evidence the vaccine prevents the serious complication of shingles down the road. It will help doctors explain the broader benefits of the vaccine to parents.
• It's not yet known if vaccinated kids will need the adult shingles vaccine later on. More long-term data is needed as the first vaccinated generation ages.
• But with fewer kids getting chickenpox to begin with due to vaccination, rates of shingles should continue declining over time as well.

From 2021 (or so): don't have a link

• Covid vaccine increase rate of Shingles in adult (I think age 60+).
• blah blah blah (not going to go over it), but the first fact will be enough to weaponize against Covid vaccine

Medicine is a very complicated area and easily manipulated with data points. ps. The UK absolutely recommend chickenpox vaccine to 1 year+.

 

Wow. You tried to drop the mic but it fell on your foot. The chicken pox vaccine didn't start to be mass administered until the mid 90s, so most of those kids who got it first are in their late 20s now which is far below the average age of catching shingles. And again, the UK health board says this which directly contradicts the study you posted. Not sure where you see they recommend it after age 1. It isn't even on their vaccine schedule so how can you say they recommend it? They don't (see the second link for the NHS).

https://www.ox.ac.uk/research/everything-you-need-know-about-chickenpox-and-why-more-countries-don’t-use-vaccine

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine-questions-answers/#:~:text=Why is the chickenpox vaccination,chickenpox and shingles in adults.

Americans really think they're the only country that exists lol

 

I'm 25 and I've had shingles over 20+ times. I started getting it when I was 10.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with me, but I've definitely read about other younger people experiencing this type of chronic shingle outbreaks, it's beyond a statistical anomaly for what the current medical statistics are on the disease.

 

Ah yes the classic counter of just say this is about money and then bring up a lot of stuff not relevant to the discussion at hand.

And in that very statement he says he believes that vaccines have saved countless lives and that the benefits of vaccines outweigh any individual threat.

And I asked if you have those studies which you haven't posted yet.

Again it doesn't say as compared to someone who weren't previously infected or vaccinated. You're making an inference and not a direct statement from the text.

Further one of the main arguments made by people against taking the vaccine is that natural immunity is sufficient. Accepting the arguement that natural immunity puts you at more risk for this variant then you should take the latest vaccine.

Fauci in July of 2020.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/02/the...us has mutated in,a little dispute about it.”
"Fauci said, adding that “there’s a little dispute about it.” Viruses naturally mutate and scientists have previously said they have observed minor mutations in the coronavirus that have not impacted its ability to spread or cause disease in any significant way. "

Except you can home school and there never was a mandate that said home schooled students had to be vaccinated. Also as you note that there was a personal belief exemption shows that there were exceptions to so called mandates.

Because of mass vaccination we don't experience measles that much anymore yet in a few cases it can be deadly. In several of the cases in the Minneapolis measles outbreak children were hospitalized.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...eled-vaccine-fear-sends-kids-hospital-n757141
"
While most kids recover after a rash, fever and perhaps a cough, it can lead to serious complications from pneumonia to encephalitis, a brain inflammation that can cause permanent disabilities and sometimes can kill.
Nurse Practitioner Patsy Stinchfield, senior director of infection control at Children's Minnesota, has seen it. In 1990 an epidemic of measles caused 100,000 cases across the U.S."

“Here in Minnesota we had 460 cases,” Stinchfield told NBC News.

“That was my first year working here and we had three children die in Minnesota from measles and two of them died right here at our hospital.”

The hospital has treated 34 children during the outbreak, most sent home after being treated for low blood oxygen caused by pneumonia, high fevers and dehydration.

“It is not a simple rash disease. It is a disease that can take one to two people's lives per every 1,000 cases,” Stinchfield said.

 

Lololololol…. You are an ignorant child.

 

Bottom line…. If people don’t want to get vaccines fine….

But accountability dictates if some idiot doesn’t vaccine their kids and my kids get the measles then I sue and you pay up.

Accountability dictates that if you don’t want to get a flu shot or Covid shot… then your insurance (private or public) should have the ability to deny hospital or clinic coverage and you have to pay out of pocket.

 

Sorry to hear that. Yeah they are saying people are getting shingles younger and younger but that meant getting it in your 40s not 50s/60s, so if many in their 30s/20s are getting it that's a major red flag. Hopefully we get more studies on it.

Monetary gains are very unimportant and never a part of anything, you are so correct.

Agreed, so you believe him on that but don't believe him that the CDC hid data to not show the link between vaccines and autism?

I already posted the NIH study RFK was referring to several pages back. It and others saying the same thing are VERY easy to find.

So because it "doesn't say" you can't come to the conclusion? I'm not making an inference on anything. The direct quote said those who have gotten covid and/or were vaccinated against it are at higher risk. Seems like YOU'RE the one trying to imply something is there that is not, which is unvaccinated people who have never caught covid are at similar risk. Now THAT is something the memo from the CDC doesn't imply at all.

Nah not at all. For one, there is no comparison currently for natural immunity vs "vaccine immunity" for this new variant, but what we do know is natural immunity is better overall. If you haven't caught COVID yet it'd be pretty dumb to go get vaccinated against this new variant.

Cool keep quoting fauci, but people like Walensky said stuff completely different. And then the news media parroted that to the masses. Biden too but of course he isn't a health official.

CA doesn't have a personal belief exemption which is the state I named. Sure you can home school, but how can a parent home school when they also have to work? Not everyone has the ability to do that, which the government knows which is why they put in those mandates.

Before mass vaccination, 0.01% of measles cases resulted in deaths and only 1% resulted in hospitalizations per CDC data- https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

Do the math on the numbers they gave to see what the actual percentage rates were...

They say recovering from measles naturally has really helped those immune systems later in life to fight off certain cancers, etc. I'll have to go find the study I found on that one

 

lol the more likely scenario would be YOUR kid giving the measles to another kid who is unvaccinated due to a vaccine leak, not the other way around. that's how all of these more modern "measles outbreaks" started. it wasn't from an unvaccinated kid

when you have no argument, just throw more personal insults. your kind has been doing that a lot this thread

 

Nope. Measles outbreaks are coming from communities that don’t believe in vaccines because god or whatever.

Also, if you get the flu or Covid without the vaccine then you pay up out of pocket. Accountability.

My kind has been straight up owning you with facts.

You are clearly engulfed in conspiracy land and it’s just a waste of time to engage with you. Therefore….

you are just an ignorant child.

 

Dang dude, and you are still standing - iron clad.

That's strange. But shingles is just the same virus waking up again. If you haven't, consider the Shingrix vaccine.

 

Luckily I don't get it nearly as bad as others, it definitely sucks but it's usually contained to a 4 inch patch, and so far never on my face. Some people have it spanning over multiple feet of their body, some get it in their eyes/noses/ears which can cause permanent damage.

Last time I checked that vaccine isn't FDA approved nor recommended for people under 50 unless they have some sort of verifiable immune disorder (which as of now, I haven't been diagnosed with any).

Some people are getting shingles as young and frequently as oral herpes (cold sores), but it doesn't feel like this has been realized by the medical community yet.

 

RFK polled at what I believe is an all-time high of 25% in most recent rasmussen poll. Thats a pretty high percentage considering how dead quiet his campaign feels/seems , he's polling 3rd behind Biden/Trump but the republican candidates like Vivek, Ron etc get so much more noise.

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pu...ight_vote_for_rfk_jr_as_third_party_candidate

New Theo Vonn podcast with RFK uploaded today

 

Perhaps if there is another poll... Rasmussen said 31% of likely black voters support Trump in Oct 2020.

 

Rasmussen is included in the RCP average (the only polling site I follow). Saw podcast uploaded, looked up the RCP, saw that poll and thought it was interesting enough to share

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e..._democratic_presidential_nomination-8171.html

 

Rasmussen is the outlier, which isn't surprising. It looks like the avg is around 15%, a bit lower than a few months ago, IIRC. I've said it before. I think the high avg is due to the Kennedy name effect.

Realistically, he has no chance. It's, of course, up to him if he wants to be a third-party spoiler.