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Solving Illegal Immigration

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    Welcome to the MAGA train....
     
  2. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Lol New Yorkers ain’t too happy their girl is giving money not to them
     
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  3. Kim

    Kim Member

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    This is a complicated situation and it gets a lot of people pissed off, which is fair because the stakes are high. No need for the vitriol though. There does need to be some factual understanding, and too many people are deficient of it, including myself because I'm not an immigration law expert. I have read up on this for a while though, and I teach it. From my understanding, the biggest issues seem to be:
    • US statutes (and Congress ratifying some UN humanitarian agreement) allow anyone who crosses the border to declare asylum and be processed to seek approval for asylum in the US. This has been the law for decades.
    • There are some exceptions to this law or loopholes achieved by enabling counteracting executive authorities.
    1. For example, you can sort of just say, "it's a temporary emergency - can't have this wave." Obama did this for short periods of time with Haiti. Trump did this to the extreme, and I think that policy got halted by the courts because it's supposed to be temporary.
    2. Another example is with Title 42, saying, "sorry, health emergency, can't process asylum apps." Trump did this, then Biden took it to the extreme (even more than Trump), then stopped. Then some states sued and SCOTUS basically said, "yes, immigration is broken, but you can't use COVID emergency powers to fix immigration emergencies."
    3. Another example is MPP, which started under Trump, which was basically, "if you went through Mexico, stay in Mexico until your claim is processed." This was combined with policy changes with regards to those who crossed through other countries without applying for help there first. Anyhow, the Biden administration stopped MPP and continued the pass-through country aspect with some alterations. Conservative states sued and SCOTUS basically said, "look, the US law says it's up to the executive branch to decide (if there's not enough space to temporarily house) to either let applicants into the US to wait or deport to let them wait outside of the US. But you can't force the executive branch to deport, particularly if other countries don't want to take them, as Mexico didn't want to anymore.
    • Laws passed by Congress state that every asylum applicant gets a process and is supposed to be housed temporarily until that process is complete. The problems are:
    1. There are never enough judges to process everyone. Congress can help this with more funding or changing the law.
    2. There is never enough housing to house everyone temporarily by law. Congress can help this with more funding or changing the law.
    3. You can't deport to countries if the other countries don't take them. You have to make treaties/international agreements with your allies, and then you have your enemies (Venezuela) who just won't accept flights.
    • Everybody wants to come to the US. Yes, there are many valid asylum reasons to be here, but if you are escaping political punishment, war, gangs, whatever (administrations have some control over what reasons are considered acceptable), it doesn't help the US if people keep passing through other countries and say to themselves, "this is better than where I'm from, but it's not the US, so I'll keep going." This is why you need international cooperation. US needs help for allied countries to take in migrants coming to the US and also prevent migrants from gettings here. If the US doesn't negotiate with allies, then we'll have a situation where countries like Panama are just bussing migrants through and say to them, "keep on going north." Panama isn't doing that anymore and is deporting more after agreeing to help the US.
    All together, we have sometimes conflicting, but always underfunded immigration laws that create laws, but cannot functionally execute them because of lack of funds and lack of cooperation of Congress to address the problems that the law did not foresee happening. And what the heck do you do when nations essentialy fail (Venezuala, Haiti, etc) and everyone there wants to come to the US? If we made the process too easy, then that just creates a higher surge incentive. The result is over 1.5 million migrants in the US waiting for processing. And let's be real, while some have a good case to stay, the majority do not (legally, not ethically), and the majority will be ordered to be deported once processed, based on stat trends. Because many people know this, they're like, "why show up to court? We'll probably lose." So many just fade into the shadow economy.

    By the way, the US still has a labor shortage, varying in need based on region. And what I read from another poster is that many companies take advantage of legal loopholes to underpay foreign workers. That should probably be stopped. But again, if we make the legal process to work so easy, that creates more incentive to come to the US illegally. We actually need more immigration in total numbers.

    So yes, it's complicated, the laws are broken, and really, Congress should fix it either by increasing funding, changing the law, or doing both. And they won't because both sides like to play to their base over a broken system and blame the other side. It's actually a major violation of Constitutional principles to expect any president to stop this process via executive powers. It definitely requires international cooperation. And I see no easy solution anytime soon.
     
    #2283 Kim, Sep 18, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2023
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  4. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Mexico has agreed to take everyone who has been deported since May of this year. If you do not apply through the CBP app you get deported under the agreement with mexico. If you apply through the CBP app you either have to have references in USA or you have to have resources or $$. There is no "assylm" at the moment for regular folks. It's all disinformation.

    The 1.5 million people you're talking about will are total applicants. The WH has said they won't process any other applications other than the CBP unless your life is in danger. The WH deported over 51k people last month alone. Their deporting at a faster rate than any administration in history

    The issue is you hit the nail on the head. Until congress allocates more money for judges the problem won't be solved and for you to pass a budget you need bipartisan votes aka it'll never happen.

    Congress is broken.
     
  5. Kim

    Kim Member

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    I think I did mention that Biden has implemented his own admin's version of MPP. But just because the program is in operation, doesn't mean illegal crossings don't happen, and it doesn't mean releases don't happen.

    The program was blocked by a judge, then allowed by the 9th circuit, and is making its way up the courts. Migration advocates are arguing that the program is too harsh on asylum seekers: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/03/1192...trictions-at-border-can-stay-in-place-for-now
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...ts-city-streets-arizona-california-rcna105308
    And yes, the caveat is that the releases are of people who have passed phase 1 essentially. The dirty truth is that based on past trends, most will not pass all the way through the end, and many will skip court, and many don't have court dates yet.

    Biden should get credit for implementing programs that decrease the crossings, but the bigger point is no matter what Biden or Trump or Obama or Bush or whatever president does, they cannot unilaterally stop crossings. You need international cooperation + Congress to fund or change the law.
     
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  6. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    A Florida district judge mandated that the admin not release anyone back in the public who doesn't have an app application. The administration is literally bounded by a federal judge (good news so they can use that excuse to activists) not to release any migrants in public.

    You're missing out on how successful this app is. They have application sites in Colombia and throughout Latin America where you can apply on a app and it tells you right away if you qualify or not. The people showing up at the border are lied to cartel unfortunately.

    The app is allowing legal immigration to happen and we should all support that. Those who don't apply through the app should be deported right away and the admin has been doing that. The issue is they can't brag or talk about their policies or else it makes aoc and the squad mad so they gotta shut up.

    If right wingers knew how similar trump and biden are in immigration policies they would STFU more
     
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  7. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Yes, conservatives, and people in general, are ignorant of the restrictive measures that the Biden program has implemented to decrease the flow of migration to the US. I'm just saying that, even though restrictive, the program doesn't stop asylum seekers and has many exceptions.
    https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/the-affirmative-asylum-process
    https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-june-2023-monthly-update
    Illegal crossing are still going on, and legal seekers people are still getting released into the country (which has always happened under all presidents). The biggest broken parts are that
    1. Too many people are crossing, because USA is #1. Biden is trying to address this is multi-national agreements. Still, push factors are huge when you're trying to flee failed states.
    2. The illegal broken part isn't necessarily the crossing and asking for asylum (or asking before crossing). It's the fact that the vast majority of applicants do not get approved in the end. It's always been that way, with some variation between administrations for acceptance reasons. But the broken part is that the line is so damn long and underfunded (because of Congress), so many people say to themselves, "I'll probably lose, so I won't go to court" and disappear and live as second class citizens.
     
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  8. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    How well can they flip patties so I can haz cheesburgers for a buck fifty?
     
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  10. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    What is your damn obsession with encounters. ENCOUNTERS DOES NOT MEAN ENTRANCE. Jesus christ you people are ****ing brainwashed.

    Were so stupid as a society with the dumbest humans
     
    #2290 astros123, Sep 19, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2023
  11. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    You had 3 shots at using punctuation. Strike 3.
     
  12. Kim

    Kim Member

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    How do you propose the encounters be decreased by the executive branch when push factors (failed states and the willingness of other nations to help) are generally not controlled by the president, and pull factors (other than temporary orders all struck down by SCOTUS) are more controlled by Congress? Do you agree that this is a Congressional responbility, since the laws that dictate immigration were passed by Congress? Just trying to end the pointless poo-flinging.
     
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  13. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    I appreciate the way you asked the question without name calling. At the very least, Biden's messaging has been terrible. Turn the folks around. 2028 court dates aren't discouraging anyone from making the trip. Encourage the federal folks to work with the states instead of punching holes in the current barriers. Ultimately it will be Congress' responsibility but it is a sieve right now.
     
  14. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The only people who are getting 2028 court dates are those folks who prove to the DHS agent that their life is in grave danger and/or they're facing political prosecution. If migrants dont meet these two standards then they are deported right away and given no court date. Youre making absolutely no sense again.

    The people who come in through the DHS APP who have court appointments have to have an american citizen to sponsor you in the short term. There are no poor migrants being allowed in the country who dont have sponsors or having their life at danger. Dont forget the DHS officers who make these determinations are usually right wingers. DHS union is super hardcore right wing.

    The idea that right wing DHS officers are rubber stamping claims of migrants whos' lives are at danger is so hilarious stupid.
     
  15. Commodore

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  16. Commodore

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    they are housing migrants in nursing homes...

     
  17. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @AroundTheWorld
    Damn that’s a lot of money
    Who’s going to pay for this? oh Chicago citizens lol!

     
  18. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  19. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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  20. NewRoxFan

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    Sure, trump is is crazy, but the real problem is that so many of hi his supporters will simply nod their heads or applaud this...

     

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