The British intelligence plane had 30 people on board according to another report i read. That report indicated 2 missile were fired. The first just fell off the pylon without its rocket motor igniting and fell into the sea, and the second missed. Thank god for janky Russian technology.
Trying to figure out why they would need 30 people. Was it a steampunk airship that needed all of the dials cranked and do-hickeys pumped constantly?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_RC-135 Im guessing 30 was probably rounded up slightly, but theres basically an entire intelligence group onboard interpteting multiple signals sources in parallell.
His post was exactly what Trump said to Germany and the media all claimed Trump was attacking allies. So go LOL yourself
Exactly? Word for word? The same type of warning was made by Obama.... and Bush Jr.... and Clinton.... and Bush Sr.... and Reagan. So LOL at you for thinking Trump only did it. Read a book....
@glynch, I don't doubt that in "real life" you are a nice guy, unlike some around here, who's bigotry and ignorance is on display time and again. However, on this subject, you are wildly off-base and incredibly misinformed. You are in serious need of informing yourself of the truth, and you are far from the only one here. The article below, from The Atlantic Council, is filled with information, the truth, and much of it I have read elsewhere. You should broaden your sources. UkraineAlert June 27, 2022 Odesa rejects Russia: Putin’s Ukraine War turns old allies into bitter enemies By Oleksiy Goncharenko Vladimir Putin has long claimed to be the champion of pro-Russian Ukrainians. However, it is now painfully apparent that the Ukrainian regions most closely associated with pro-Kremlin sentiment have also been hardest hit by the current invasion. Since the war began four months ago, Putin’s invasion force has killed thousands of the Russian-speaking and ethnic Russian Ukrainians they claim to be protecting. The Russian military has also reduced multiple largely Russian-speaking Ukrainian towns and cities to rubble. Unsurprisingly, the unfolding carnage has forced a radical rethink of attitudes toward Russia and transformed many previously sympathetic Ukrainians into bitter opponents of the Kremlin. This historic shift is nowhere more immediately apparent than in Black Sea port city Odesa. While Putin believes he has an historic right to the whole of Ukraine, Odesa has always occupied a particularly special place in the Russian imagination. For much of the late czarist period, Odesa was known as the southern capital of the Russian Empire. It would remain deeply embedded in Russian national identity throughout the Soviet era. Odesa was celebrated across the USSR for its unique sense of humor and colorful criminal underworld. The city was renowned for its associations with giants of Russian history such as Grigory Potemkin and Russian literary legends ranging from Pushkin to Isaac Babel. Many in Odesa shared this sense of close cultural affinity with Russia. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, pro-Russian sentiment remained strong in Odesa while notions of Ukrainian patriotism often struggled to take root. Pro-Kremlin parties tended to dominate the local political scene while Moscow-friendly initiatives such as recognizing Russian as Ukraine’s second state language enjoyed widespread public backing. At the same time, there was relatively little appetite in Odesa for an actual Russian reunion. While a majority of Odesans favored strong ties between Ukraine and Russia and saw the two countries as closely related, only a minority of residents wanted to separate from Ukraine or become part of modern Russia. Instead, local identity tended to dominate over issues of citizenship, with many Odesa residents preferring to see their nationality as “Odesan” rather than Ukrainian or Russian. This typically whimsical take on the nationality debate captured the essence of identity politics in post-Soviet Odesa but proved too nuanced for the Kremlin. During the buildup to the February 2022 invasion, Putin appears to have convinced himself that Odesa and other traditionally Russophile Ukrainian cities throughout the south and east of the country were secretly waiting for liberation and would welcome his army with cakes and flowers. This catastrophic miscalculation has sparked the largest European conflict since WWII and done much to shatter the generational ties that once bound Russia and Ukraine so closely together. Prior to 2014, Odesans overwhelmingly expressed positive attitudes toward Russia. Meanwhile, surveys consistently identified majority backing for some form of customs union with Russia and other former Soviet states. Meanwhile, relatively few in the Black Sea port city favored EU membership. A poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in February 2014 during the climatic weeks of Ukraine’s Euromaidan Revolution found that 24% of Odesans wanted to see Ukraine join the Russian Federation, representing one of the highest percentages in the entire country. Even as Russia waged a localized war in eastern Ukraine from spring 2014, positive perceptions of Odesa’s Russian heritage continued to translate into strong support for Moscow-leaning politicians. However, everything changed on February 24, 2022. Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine has devastated the country and caused untold suffering. Tens of thousands have been killed during the first four months of the war, with millions more forced to flee their homes. Meanwhile, the Kremlin has embarked on the systematic destruction of the Ukrainian economy. Factories, shopping centers and vital infrastructure have been targeted with airstrikes, while Odesa’s ports have been blockaded in order to cut off Ukraine’s economic lifeline to global markets. Odesa has not yet found itself on the frontlines of the fighting but it has suffered numerous airstrikes. Since February, it has become a fortress city prepared to defend itself against Russian assault from both land and sea. Odesans are now under no illusion that they face a fight for survival. Other predominantly Russian-speaking Ukrainian cities with similarly strong historical links to Russia have been shown no mercy. Instead, they have been subjected to brutal bombardment and in many cases wiped off the face of the earth. Ukraine’s second-largest seaport after Odesa, Mariupol, has been almost completely destroyed with more than twenty thousand civilians feared dead. Many of the victims were ethnic Russians. Few doubt that Odesa will suffer a similar fate if Russian troops are able to advance on the city. The genocidal savagery of Putin’s invasion has had a profound impact on Odesan attitudes toward Russia while also dramatically strengthening Ukrainian identity in the city. A survey conducted in June 2022 by Ukrainian pollster SOCIS captured the historic shifts taking place in Odesa. It found that 78% of Odesa residents expressed pride in Ukrainian identity. At the same time, 88% noted a major deterioration in their assessment of Russia’s leaders and 80% cited a sharp decline in feelings toward Russians in general. Odesa’s dramatic turn away from Russia over the past four months has been mirrored throughout Ukraine’s most traditionally pro-Kremlin regions. (more at the link, and elsewhere, if you simply look) https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blo...ine-war-turns-old-allies-into-bitter-enemies/
Why didn't the media run a crawl for them claiming to be attacking our allies then? Oh crap that was the point of my post in the first place.
This argument put forward by many that Russia isn’t evil and is a rational actor just isn’t supported by the facts. Now Russia isn’t a cartoon villain but they were the ones who invaded Ukraine and there are many reports of them committing war crimes in areas they occupied. Putin has already said he wants Ukraine for a variety of reasons including some quasi historical ties. People now expect that all Biden has to do is to stop sending aid to Ukraine and magically peace will break out. It seems far more likely that if the US stopped sending aid Russia would launch an offensive and the Ukranians would prepare to fight asymmetrically. All of this still overlooks the fact that aid to Ukraine is Congressionally mandated and isn’t just Biden deciding on his own.
You keep making this awful disingenuous argument that because Russia is attacking ukraine that they somehow don't want peace either. The USA literally carpet bombed Tokyo while we were pushing peace in ww2. During Vietnam War we were bombing their capital while pushing for peace. What's your point here You're making disingenuous talking points that if we stopped aid ukraine would fall. Nobody in the world is talking about cutting all aid to Ukraine and you keep making this point. Suddenly cutting aid to Ukraine would be extremely bad and noone in their right mind is asking for this. If you don't think the most important thing is for zelensky to secure long term security guarantees before the next election then I'm not sure what to tell you. You have no exit plan or no strategy other than just wanting ukr to win which is what we all want.
It would be easier if we could substitue the word Russia with Putin. Honestly it's real shitty when people celebrate Russian deaths when instead of framing it as a tragic death due to politicians not finding reasonable compromises. It reminds me when a certain sect of our population though it was a victory everytime a brown person was killed in the middle east, somehow portraying them as evil people because of fundamental religious differences. As mentioned before, all this war has done is push China and Putin closer together. While I don't have an answer to the problem, what I am stating is the current method is not going too well. This thought reminds me of Afghanist and Iraq. 10 years in we realized it was not going great. There was a loud minority voice that stated we overstayed our welcome and it was just time to leave. Instead, we doubled down with the great surge for another 10 years of occupation. You don't see me criticizing the Biden administration that often, but I do think it's time for a regime change for both the US and Russia. Unfortunately neither have a knight in shining armor waiting in the wings.
If it’s not cutting all aid to Ukraine then what are you arguing for? You keep on bringing up than Biden can push for a peace plan but ignoring that the actual combatants don’t seem to want it. further this argument that we were pressing for peace while we were carpet bombing Tokyo ignores that it was total surrender of Japan. That’s why we dropped the second A Bomb because there was plenty of evidence that Japan was in the verge of surrender just not total surrender. Now if your view is that the Russians want peace like we did in WWII with the total surrender of an Ukraine then yes that is peace. That isn’t something that the Ukrainians are interested in or would go for. You’ve not answered the question about how Biden can singularly push for peace and now you appear to be backtracking on your argument regarding halting aid to Ukraine to compel them to the peace table.
The war is going good for the west in a military sense. The pentagon has spent 10% of their yearly budget and wiped out a decade of Russian heavy armor. Russia was already facing massive demographic collapse and now with another 400k+ dead this is the end of Russia being a super power for good. The tech export controls have shattered Russian economy. They have no way to replace aviation parts and other necessary components. The issue is that of a political question. Russian energy being sanctioned has led to numerous countries embracing facism. Folks are really suffering in Europe and America and leaders are getting voted out left and right The longer this war goes on the more power the far right will have globally.
Except again this isn’t Afghanistan or Iraq. US troops aren’t doing the fighting the Ukranians are and unlike Afghan national army they seem highly motivated to do so. There is no reasons for us to leave Ukraine becaue we’re not in Ukraine. And who is Celebrating the deaths of Russians? It’s horrible what’s happening to them but they are combatants in a war they their leader started and they are continuing to fight.
