I think we should be able to agree that modern money sucks. The reality is the people who live pay check to pay check are getting the short end of the stick. In the country as great as the United States, people shouldn't be forced to work hard laborious jobs for low pay. And when our idiotic government tries to tell us $15.00 an hour is a livable wage, those who support this idiotic notion are just as guilty. $20.00 or $25.00 an hour is not a livable wage either. However the economics can't support this. Interest rates are too high. Home prices are too high. Fuel prices are steadily increasing. Quality of healthcare goes down while the cost goes up. But yet you have people here who try to convince me its the greedy grocery stores and gas stations who are the cause of this inflation, and not the incompetent government from the last 3 decades. There are people who worship their parties and get absolutely nothing in return. All people want are more creature comforts to make themselves feel better. Maybe Bitcoin doesn't fix this. But whatever has been going on isn't working either. At least Bitcoin isn't corrupt..... maybe one day it can happen I just can't see how.
I get what you are saying. I am just not understanding how bitcoin accomplishes this utopia and solves all of the worlds problems. Is that idea that you take the control of "money" out of the govts hands? Again I am not smart as some of you. So pardon my ignorance.
The saying is "fix the money, fix the world". When you think about it, it makes sense. If people cannot accrue wealth they cannot save for the future so their decision making becomes focused on now and not tomorrow. Civilization cannot advance without the ability to plan and act for the betterment of the future. Further, the freer exchange of goods and services benefits everyone.
Fiat money isn't corrupt, people are. Bitcoin is no different as we can see North Korea taking advantage of your vaunted system to rapidly expand its nuclear weapons program.
The key difference being how dependent fiat is on people VS BTC. Fiat can be corrupted by a handful of individuals working in concert. Bitcoin requires millions. As for NK, that's not corruption, that's working exactly as intended. BTC does not care who the end user is nor does it care about their purpose, and that is how money should be. Just like the internet, an open, permission-less utility.
You are underestimating powerful and corrupt people. Is this one of those "guns don't kill people...people do" situations?
Do you understand how Bitcoin's consensus protocol works? How much computing power it would require to 'corrupt' the BTC network? I'm guessing not, because if you did, you'd realize how dumb the statement you just made is. You keep talking about something that you have not done even a modicum of research about and it makes you look like such a fool. Guns and money are two very different things. Money I'm fine with being open and permission-less, guns perhaps not.
BTC exists now. I don't see any of these things being solved currently. So when is it going to happen? If BTC was going to create a utopian society, it would have done it already. So far it's a great vessel to extract money from people based on the greater fool theory.
I'm not sure what you mean by "these things", but I think you should realize that it's beyond anyone's capability to predict when something will happen. LOL. You expect a utopian society in 13 years? I've seen some insane goal post moving before but that one takes the cake. And for what it's worth, "Utopia" isn't the promise. Broken money isn't the root of every evil, but it does cause a lot of problems. "Fix the money, fix the world" is just saying, don't take it too literally. You're still gonna stub your toe, get sick, get fired, step in ****, etc, so maybe reel it in a little bit.
Ok will check back in 10 years. Hopefully I am wrong because I would love for this world to be a better place.
It already is. Having a place to store wealth that is immutable, transportable, and incorruptible is something we've never enjoyed until now and a huge quality of life improvement.
It seems you are more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing. Utopia, something that will never exist, certainly isn't going to be created in 13 years. Bitcoin isn't going to fix very much in the next 10 years nor will it be the end all solution for eternity. I certainly do not expect Bitcoin to be around in 200 years. I do question if it could become obsolete before it takes off. It is a piece of technology, just as SWIFT is a piece of technology. However SWIFT is highly antiquated and is still around running strong as ever. I differ from most Bitcoiners, albeit I do not ridicule or belittle them for their beliefs. Their fundamental belief is strong and they at least understand the current system is highly dysfunctional that favors the undeserved elite. I dont think Bitcoin needs to become the world currency to fix significant problem nor do I think it has the capability to be a world currency. There is simply too much arbitrage to be found between a continent like Africa and N America for any form of world currency. Bitcoin, if successful (ie: reaches a large market cap exceeding gold AND sufficient liquidity) can solve the cantillon effect problem and Triffens Dilemma. The reason why 3rd world countries struggle so much is because they are at the very end of the cantillon effect. The reason why useless people like Warren Buffet and Blackrock do so well is because they have the mouths wrapped around the money spicket of the Global world reserve currency. Bitcoin can help significantly with this problem. If there is no central authority running the global reserve currency and its largely automated on its own, this also helps with Triffens dilemma. Triffens dilemma is why many of us believe we (the world) is heading for another inevitable depression. We are running a 120% debt to GDP that is only projected to get worse. If Bitcoin can get to a $25 trillion marketcap in nominal value and stabilize, then smaller countries can use bitcoin as the reserve currency to base their fiat against and will no longer be beholden to whoever the world master is in that time period.
Yeah we part company on a few things. 1) I think BTC will last far longer than 200 years. I think it may very well be "the last currency". 2) I think we trip up too much over "currency" status. As long as Bitcoin is the primary unit of account or measure for economic energy, it doesn't really matter what is trading back and forth at the top layer to facilitate the exchange as long as what is backing the entire thing is BTC, which I believe it one day will be.
When thinking endgames, I can't see how BTC will be egalitarian and for the people without a hard fork and a re-issuance for everyone. Old bitcoiners can hodl while everyone else uses the infra BTC/crypto built on BTCx.x This eliminates lost/destroyed tokens, entrenched whales manipulating local exchanges, and all the other grandfathered limitations. You're essentially writing a new "Constitution." It's always possible BTC was our Altavista or Yahoo for something else. Can still make money...
It's about as egalitarian as anything can be. Anonymous, disappeared creator. It was advertised ahead of time when mining would begin. Began at zero value. Anyone could participate (anyone who had heard of it, anyway). Controlled by no one and everyone simultaneously. Pretty damned honest and equitable all the way through. You don't create a monetary system to solve wealth inequality. That will always be with us. It's practically a law of physics. The earlier you realize BTC is the best asset to own, the better off you are, and that's perfectly fair. You can create whatever money you like, but good luck A) replicating the immaculate conception and B) overtaking the first-mover. This also assumes you have found a flaw in the BTC protocol and developed a solution, to which millions have tried so far and no luck yet.
Sez you. Any deflationary Currency with an estimated 1/7th lost/destroyed off the bat (for global adoption) doesn't sound like something I'd expect Joe Blow to put money in for buying steak and eggs. Instead of currency, it sounds more like digital real estate to me, where btc whales live off the low float Elon style and anyone outside of El Salvador and Central African Republic have to buy in sats for a shot at the lottery. I genuinely wonder how lending will work if mining has been exhausted. I admit I have not researched that 10+ yr aspect. As a global currency, you're still going to have local control (peg ratio) and hedge funds minting derivatives out of it. The first one at min for logistical reasons (wheel reinvention). Money somehow has to be created to generate risk in order to produce new value, and with the deflationary aspect, it's much harder to lend once mining rewards stops being an incentive. The Eurozone might be an example of where different nations juggle their regional economies while under the same currency. In a sense, Germany stifles industrial growth among the south, but decides to subsidize the souths debts to keep their own industrial base strong. Can't do that with btc, so countries won't willingly give up their autonomy. Which goes back to the original point, why would people riot and rebel for BTC to force countries to adopt BTC? I'm in it to get rich as an early adopter/speculator, and it'd be very be nice for them to do the heavy lifting for me.
1. I recognize much can happen in 200 years. I wouldn't be surprised if its still around. Observing the last 200 years of technological advancement, its hard to predict that far in the future for this type of technology. 2. I do agree. Products being shipped globally and especially global debt are typically denominated in whatever the current world reserve currency, which is the $USD. This is essentially the basis being the Eurodollar market. I do see a high probability of Bitcoin becoming this. While the $USD is highly unlikely to crash and burn into hyper-inflation, it simply is not sustainable to being a world reserve currency if debt-to-GDP continues to run in excess of 100%. There simply is no plausible solution at this time to get it under 100%.
I'm not sure why deflation would be a problem when BTC is infinitely divisible. Joe Blow won't mind, but more than that, he won't have a choice. Hardest currency wins, always. It very much is digital real estate, only this real estate can be owned by anyone, exchanged to anyone instantly, bought at any increment or fraction, and can never be taken away or censored. That doesn't have anything to do with "whales living off the low float" though. My knowledge about the post mining world is lower than I would like but I don't feel like this is a problem. Won't matter. You cannot insulate yourself from a superior currency. History is littered with examples of people trying and failing. I dunno. Might be worth looking into countries with hyper inflation and how BTC is doing over there. Not really my concern though. BTC is going to be just fine.
IMO in order for BTC to go away, one of two things have to happen, either the entire BTC ledger is wiped out (this is likely an extinction level event), or society has to transcend currency altogether.
Yes. I believe there is a much higher probability than ever we can transcend past currency in the next 200 years . I don't know to what extent. Hunter/gatherer might be to extreme of a jump. Grabers Debt: The first 5000 years is a great read. LA's Broken Money is largely inspired by this book. Never in history has there been something like Bitcoin. Grabers book really hones in on the idea that anything can be used for money and anything can be used for debt. The idea that someone can come to a village, capture all them men and use them as currency just doesn't register with us, but it happened in the last 200 years. Is fusion a myth? Fusion would destroy bitcoin. What else will it destroy? Trying to trade in a world of endless energy would be nuts.
