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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    For Russia to “win” they have to be able to hold Ukraine long term. Good luck with that.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Yeah they gave them good stuff. HIMARS and Javelins pretty much stopped the Russian invasion in its tracks and saved Kharkiv and retook Kherson. Also just supply vehicles and ammunition is simply way more important than fancy shiny weapons.

    It's weird because all of these "I'm so concerned for the people in the Ukraine, they should just surrender" sentiment seems to ignore the fact that within Ukraine itself, it's like 80% support for "no let's not let these ****ers erase us from existence" - surprising i know!
     
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  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That is part of the dictator's playbook 101 - Joseph Stalin, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Maybe - and I mean that when I say maybe.

    The reason I say that, is because I seriously question whether or not Putin can survive 5 years of fighting for Ukraine. I don't see this lasting 5 years, either the West abandons it or gets sick of it dragging on and gives it more supplies and weapons to push Russia out. As far as Ukraine getting destroyed, parts of it are - but it appears at this point most in the country would rather fight than he under Russian rule.
     
  5. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Can someone make an objective assessment of the situation in Ukraine? All I have read is that Ukraine is winning and making progress in the SPRING offensive, soon it will be end of summer. Are they going to drive out the Russians or not?
     
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  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Minimal advantage to Ukraine but Russia still has a lot of manpower and equipment and could retake the initiative. Ukraine needs to achieve its goals (restoring sovereignty) sooner than later because the longer the war runs the more Russia will be able to adapt.
     
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  7. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    The thee wild cards are the collapse of the Russian Federation, Russia or Belarus attacking a NATO member, and if Russia decides to use low yield atomic weapons.

    or if China decides to support Russia which seems the least likely.
     
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  8. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Ukraine claims gains near Bakhmut as Russian currency continues slide

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-66496592

    Summary
    1. The Russian currency has continued to slide, reaching its lowest value for 16 months - meaning that 100 roubles is now worth about one American dollar
    2. The economic backdrop has worsened in Russia - as the government spends more than it earns, and after Western countries imposed sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine
    3. Russia's central bank has announced it will meet tomorrow morning to discuss interest rates, with a decision expected at 10:30 local time (0830 BST)
    4. On the front line, Ukrainian troops have taken back 3 sq km (1.2 square miles) near the battle-scarred eastern city of Bakhmut over the last week, says the deputy defence minister
    5. Meanwhile, two people were killed overnight when a town in the Zaporizhzhia region was hit with missiles - and the port city of Odesa also came under attack
    6. And Ukraine has condemned its enemy's "provocative" actions, after Russia boarded a grain ship in the Black Sea over the weekend
     
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  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Russia is losing men and equipment at much higher rate than Ukraine. Russia can mobilize more men, albeit not trained by the time they arrive on the front lines. Russia is limited in their ability to restock their military equipment.

    Ukraine has seriously reduced Russia's military capabilities. The saying is that "Russia was the second strongest army in the world, but now in Ukraine they are the second strongest army in Ukraine". The longer the war goes on, the weaker Russia's army becomes.

    If you look at Russia's initial goals upon entering the war, they have stopped making progress after the first few months. Now that Ukraine has got their **** together and got weapons from NATO, Ukraine is slowly making progress. I do not see this trend stopping. Ukraine might not be able to push Russia out this year or next.

    BUT

    How long can Russia lose tanks, Navy ships, Air Force planes, etc. until they become a third rate military? I could see Russia suing for peace, before Ukraine is finished with them.
     
    #13349 No Worries, Aug 14, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2023
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The short answer is that overall Ukraine has done better than anyone expected, but there are still too many variables to accurately predict the outcome. Russia has fortified itself in some areas it has taken, and that will make it harder for Ukraine to take back land lost.

    However, Ukraine has received some increased technology and support recently and the full impact of that has not been felt yet. Ukraine has more of a sense of urgency because they are reliant on fickle allies in Europe and the USA, and they want to keep the PRC out of it.

    Russia at the same time has lost a lot of capital, and their currency and economy is wrecked. At some point Putin will face SERIOUS political consequences, including removal or death.

    I think that this Winter will tell us what the outcome will be.
     
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  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Exactly people still have a Risk board/WWII vision of Russia's army - when the reality is staring them in the face.

    Russia's army is good at suppressing internal rebellions of unarmed civilians, it is good at laying tons of mines and making it hard for an invader, it is good at launching drone/missile/rocket attacks at civilian targets, it is not good at conquering other states, which is how their invasion goals shifted from "lunch in kiev!" to "just hold on to what we managed to get" to "maybe we'll hold on to what we took in 2014" to "maybe we'll find some way out of this"
     
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  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Wow that’s so true. Great point!
     
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  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Exiled, Ubiquitin and Major like this.
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    I can't think of any totalitarian regimes - both on the left and the right - that weren't significantly nationalistic in their internal rhetoric.
     
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  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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  16. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    If I understand MTG and her allies recent criticisms of the US giving billions of military aid to Ukraine and not to Hawaii correctly, we should be sending HIMARS and Patriot batteries to Hawaii not Ukraine. Not sure I fully understand the point, but let's do it. Pacific Ocean won't stand a chance.
     
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  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Shes talking about biden requesting more money for ukraine but she somehow forgets that in the very same request biden asks for more money for hawaii as well. These people are illiterate and dumb as hell
     
  18. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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  19. dmoneybangbang

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    We clearly didn't give them enough of the better weapon systems.
     
  20. dmoneybangbang

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    And that was instrumental in stopping the Russian advance and limiting the territory taken. However, we didn't give the longer range munitions for the HIMARs or much of anything to actually take the fight to Russia. UK and soon France are supplying Ukraine with the longer range cruise missiles but not in great quantity.

    In hindsight, our reluctance to provoke/escalate Russia was misguided as soon as Ukrainian population centers were targeted.
     

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