Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, eliminating constitutional right to abortion

You remind me of my religious hypocrite of a father. Can’t have a discussion in good faith, “I didn’t vote for them”, “I don’t support that”, “what lies”, “you slander god” by using his own book against himself.

and here are the lies or intention misdirections of the corrupt Supreme Court

https://progressive.org/latest/unequal-justice-supreme-court-justices-abortion-lie-blum-20223/

Keep on keeping on. Your patriarchal white privilege is slipping away.

To the ignore list you go. Bye bye angry boomer.

 

Double post.

 

In this case, the doctor is "bound" by the fear of life imprisonment by the state and wouldn't provide an abortion on a doomed fetus.

That is a challenge that goes both ways. Do you trust doctors to decide, or do you have the state as the ultimate decider? That's a question, and my answer is we should leave it up to doctors, not the state. The state can surely set guidelines, but they shouldn't use legal language that threatens or "binds" doctors' decisions in a way that effectively forces them to "do harm" (by not acting) rather than risk jail time.

 

You don't think what you just wrote isn't self righteous?

And yes there is plenty of self-righteousness on the other side such as claiming that Pro-Life people just want to control women. That's what I mean about talking past each other. You're not convincing anyone who doesn't agree with you already and obviously those on the other side aren't convincing you. We can keep on making self-righteous statements about baby killers or fascists wanting to conrol women that gets us likes from those we agree with but that doesn't really lead to much.

Believe it or not I actually have moral reservations about abortions which is why I think there is room to find ways to reduce abortions and make sure that every pregnancy is wanted.

 

That is your right and you can absolute decide you are going to make a principled stand. As I said in the last post that will get you a lot likes from those you agree and make you feel warm inside that you're such a principled person.

The problem is is whether that actually gets you closer to your goal.

I predict within 10 years we will likely see the availability of abortion back to pre-Dobbs level. Possibly even greater. As soon as the next Congress we could see a national law legalizing abortion. If Kentucky will vote for legal abortion shows that most of the country wants it. Republicans know this themselves which is why even Trump chided state legislatures for their anti abortion efforts. To pound the point again abortion levels were already dropping before Dobbs there are measures that can be taken to reduce abortion without blanket bans. Or you can chose to harden your position and hope there isn't backlash.

 

That's why I said that; if you have an opinion on something and there's strong disagreement it always comes off as being self-righteous with the intensity. It runs both ways and to a third if it exists.

I'm not even trying to convince those with whom I'm "debating." I am airing out sides of the argument that are minimized, trampled over, or obscured.

Reducing abortions is fine but how many died yesterday or will die today and tomorrow?

You do know that every pregnancy is not wanted. I watched the Stephen Curry movie on Apple TV last night. He was an "unplanned pregnancy." His mom still had 3 years of schooling to finish ... and you can imagine the rest of the story because they shared nothing more.

 

Your telling of the story only picked up the struggle post-partum so I cannot really comment on what happened during the pregnancy as I don't know..

I believe there is a place for abortion for true medical need and in the case of rape, but the stats indicate that most abortions are about lifestyle preferences choices and not health challenges. Private adoptions usually arrange for proper health care and remuneration. Not a bad alternative for a situation that one is responsible for.

40% of women who got abortions were getting their second, third, or fourth. The other 60% have had but one but we have to wonder how many may well be on their way to multiples.

 

How many times must I deflect your charges of religious zealotry? You just paint whatever picture you want ... completely unreasonable.

 

I'm a libertarian, as a people we take principled stands and don't do a heck of a lot to get closer to our goals.

 

It is just one of many stories since Roe was overturned and States have banned abortion with few exceptions. This particular one is part of an active court case in Texas. There are plenty of cases of doctors holding back because they fear the state putting them in jail. For every single story made public by a brave woman, I'm sure there are many other untold stories by women who want to remain private.

This isn’t at all unexpected. When the laws in Texas and other states came out threatening doctors with jail time, the medical community spoke out against them. They are unwilling to do what they believe should be done for fear of jail time or heavy financial penalties. It’s completely understandable that they would play it safe even if that means more harm to women.

What I'm hearing from you is you want to "comment" on this (and these) stories after reading about what happened during the pregnancy. Frankly, that's the same as the State's position and that's the problem. You and the State are stepping in and judging what's appropriate, not leaving it to the doctor. And while I'm sure you don't want to see suffering from a baby with no chance and their mother, I am hearing that your concern with the "40% of women..." (a stat I'm not sure is accurate, but I will leave it as is) means you put aside the suffering anyway.

Frankly, the realization of the impact of these State laws since Roe was overturned and the unwillingness to deal with these real issues experienced by women (and her family) is why polling has shown an increase in support for abortion rights, at every stage of pregnancy - including late-term abortion - from nearly every political group and every age group. It's a ticking time bomb that will backfire if this path continues as is, and with politicians seemingly doubling down on them, that might be sooner than we all think.

 

The issue was that abortion was basically available "on demand." That's why I cited the 40% statistic (NY Times) because a vast number of women were getting pregnant AGAIN with an unwanted pregnancy.

You were asking me to comment on something on which I have a very limited exposure: I was told the baby was born and struggled to breathe for four hours before expiring. I read nothing about what happened during the pregnancy. Had the mother wished for an abortion prior to birth? There's no abortion even possible in the scenario depicted.

I'm not in Texas so I don't know the news there. There are other ways that doctors can't circumvent the law: euthanasia or experimental surgery, etc.

Other than, it seems, having to witness it; how was that child's death any worse than the child in utero who is mangled during an abortive extraction?
I find it ironic that there is such an eagerness to talk about one case but not the millions of others.

 

@rocketsjudoka -- here's your perfect example of abject self-righteousness

 

This you?

 

Keep my name out yo mouth old man. I show ignored content just to see the pot calling the kettle black. More projection from the right.

Added note: There's nothing self righteous about my statements you posted (other posts before that I'm sure you could find self righteousness on both of our parts as this topic tends to get people heated and from each others perspective it comes off as self righteous). That said you did remind me of my religious hypocrite of a father. Maybe you're different, maybe you're not. After showing ignored content and reading a couple of your posts from yesterday with Judoka I'll admit you aren't as absolute in your anti-abortion stance (being OK with some medically necessary abortions) as I believed so I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

We should all work to prevent the need for abortions through education and social services. I also believe we need to preserve all women's right to bodily autonomy. I'm afraid time will show the over turning of RvW is just the first step of the rolling back of anti-discrimination laws as referenced in Clarance Thomas written opinion.

My posts on this subject are done, and I'm removing you from my ignore list as I have that space reserved for the worst of the worst, and you probably don't deserve to be in with many in that group.

Anyway. I sincerely hope you have a good day.

 

how many ppl do you have on ignore lol?

 

7 but a couple of those may be duplicate accounts for the same person.

 

The vote today in OHio shows the lengths that Republican legislatures will go. OH shows just under 60% support rolling back restrictions on abortion. There is a ballot measure doing that on the ballot for November. In response the legislature has put up a ballot measure today changing the requirement to do so to be over 60%. The legislature had previously banned August ballot measures because it would be unrepresentative as most people aren’t around then. Yet have made an exception for this measure.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/08/08/ohio-ballot-republicans-00110169

 

The tyranny of the minority is an inherent short-term weakness of our current system. Hopefully, Ohioans will remember this come election time. However, the bigger issues of minority rule are gerrymandering and voter suppression.

 

In other words, republicans have to count on legislative and judicial gimmicks to overcome the will of the people...

 

There are times we need to protect the minority and the Founders certainly believed this. Unfortunately rather than measures like this leading to reasoned compromise we see GOP Legislatures use it to impose their will regardless of what most of their consitutents think.

Unfortunately for OH like several other states it's so gerrymandered it's unlikely the legislature will change. It will take them getting beaten in statewide elections. Given that JD Vance still won shows that;s not going to be easy either.