What ratings are these? Sengun is a better defensive player than Green, no question. Well, everyone is... 538 ranks Sengun #25 among 55 Centers in defensive ratings... https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
This coming season, aside from the goal of winning to enter the playoffs - most plays would be designed to test/bring out the capabilities and/or star superstar potentials of Jalen and Alpe. This is to see who gets the max, it's obvious with the way fo/tilman structured the contracts of our new signees, they are willing to give just one slot for a max. The next slot is for Jabari if he pans out, if not, then it goes to Amen- if he does... obviously there's just two max players the organization is willing to pay... but if more than a couple of superstars come out from our youngins' then we might as well convince fo/tilman to pay lux tax.. right right
What makes Sengun not the worst defensive center is that he actually gives a **** and and has pretty good recovery. If effort is there eventually you develop into a 5/10 defender.
This should be the first season that expectations can be "real" or remotely significant for Jalen and Alpe. The tank, 3rd seasons, coach Ime Udoka/veterans/culture... I think it's fair to say they have to show us where the arrow is headed this season. If they want max contracts they can prove it.
It’s even worse than that - we gave away those guys for a guy who ultimately opted not to play here. KPJ isn’t the reason we lost them- he’s on a team friendly contract - we could have paid him a mil and cut him if we had wanted to. …but I suppose all of that is beside the point because we ran out of minutes for all these young guys and you could argue(and I have been) that we never had the minutes in the first place(because of the allegiance to guys like Nix - ugh) - but I do agree it’s absurd that Stone got no value for them which was disappointing. Then again - for a team with too many rookie contracts - what is the value in hoarding more if the front office is content on building via the draft and doesn’t even show interest in using those picks in trades.
true..I'm with the ''real'' or remotely significant sentence.. . Stone and party blatantly tanked this past years. statistics and numbers of our young players this past two seasons are not really a representative of what they really are- they are persons, they have emotions - knowing that these times were tanking seasons would affect athletes...especially competitive ones, every game defeated would be a blow into their winning psyche-like in any business .. a loss is a loss no matter what you think of it... more impact when you are young..............ain't it
Worthy thread topic. As the OP said, it’s really about what happens this year. I would not put Jalen or ALP on the same level as Edwards, Ball or Halliburton as prospects. But that’s based on two years with a bad coach, coming into the league as two of the younger players in that draft. This season will determine a lot for me on how I view both players. that said, based on evidence (not potential), I think ALP is gonna be a star. I really do. Especially if we can play good team defense to take a little pressure off him on that side of the ball, he’s gonna really blossom. I buy that he’s gonna become at least a decent outside shooter, and I think his facilitation, rebounding, and ability to work the paint offensively are way ahead of his age. There are some limitations and things he must improve; he’s not Jokic. But he can be better than Sabonis and that puts him at potential All Star level. not hating on Jalen; I think he’s still the most talented of our prospects, but ALP is further along in his development and I really question the confidence factor with Jalen, which is so clearly tied to some of his performance issues. I also need to see the defense get a lot better. I’ve seen that he has the ability to be a good defender; he just needs to do it consistently. If Ime can bring that out of him this season it will go a long way for me. One last thing with him is the shooting. He’s just got to get better; not even talking about shot selection. He just needs to knock down shots at a reasonable efficiency. Tari shot better than Jalen did last year, which says a lot. If Jalen can take that big step in year 3, we are going to have a very good problem trying to figure out how we lock up both him and ALP long term.
Yeah, this will be really interesting. I would also say, we can have a pretty good idea of their career trajectory after the AS-game. There will be an adjustment period to a new coach, new system and new teammates. But this season they need to show, if they will be stars or role players. It will be especially interesting, because shots will be a lot harder to come by. FVV and Brooks will take at least 20 shots combined and there is a good chance, they will take even more. If Summer League was an indication, Jabari might also need to take more shots. What does that mean for Green? And how will he respond? His efficiency has to go up with a better PG and better teammates around him. But will he also be able to average something close to 25ppg? Will Sengun get anough touches to be a real playmaker or will he only get a couple of posessions each game? I can't wait for the new season...
It is a bit disappointing but at the end of the day Tyty, JC and Garuba were scrubs and had the value of such.
So let's say neither Sengun or Green make the massive leap next season that some are expecting, what excuse do their fans go with?
People are dumb. It is like if a player isn't Lebron, Hakeem or MJ then don't pay them. Guys, there is a reason those players are all time greatsl; they are rare. Should also add that if you had taken Jason Tatum's first three years as an accurate predictor of where he is today, you probably would not have given him an extension either. Green is a really good player who is projecting toward great player status. Why anyone would just throw him overboard at this point when you can sign him on the cheap is dumb. Also, for guys looking to use RFA, that can come back to bite you. Look at what happened with the Suns and Ayton? They did not want to offer him a max extension during the season, then let him test the FA market. He got a really great, close to max deal from the Pacers, so then the Suns matched. Then they have spent the last two seasons looking for trade partners. He hates them and they ended up trading almost the entire team, yet he remains. The other risk is that the player says, "F**k it, I will just play the season out and become an URFA next season". Now a team is stuck; since everyone in the league knows that you will lose him next season, you cannot even find trade partners. Who knows if he will give 100 percent effort. It has never been proven that teams are "scared off" by guys who take it easy in contract years. Most team GMs get it; they would not blame a player for protecting their health. Plus, every coach and GM believes that even a player with a bad attitude can be changed with the "right environment." Again, all of these internet keyboard GMs, most of whom work for minimum wage (if they are even employed), think that NBA players are like fast food workers and that the teams are their bosses. No, players are their own bosses. They sign a contract for personal services; the team and the player are partners. While they operate under a collective bargaining agreement, that is mainly to protect stupid owners and bad players; great owners and great players don't need protection.
Through Tatums first two seasons he was about 46 % from the floor and 40% from 3(Amazing). By his third season he was an all star. Everyone on this planet would have max extended him.
I think they could certainly have been useful players and could still be contributors in the right roster but when players show up more prepared/able with less direction - it makes it hard to justify the investment in playing time when minutes are already scarce. Take this year - there was no way we were giving Tyty or JC minutes over Amen...and that was before we signed FVV. Garuba I think is out of the league soon anyway. He had some talent but I got the sense he lacked the mindset to push himself to be significantly better and when you got guys like Tari, Jabari, and Sengun pushing for meaningful minutes in the big rotation - it didn't leave much room for Garuba as it were.
Uh, no. Of course we all know the cap holds, but you're way off on the cap space numbers next summer and in 2025. The plan is to use cap space in 2025, not next summer. Next summer, if we renounce absolutely everybody (Landale, KPJ, Green, Tate) and trade away all draft picks we can get to $28.5M in space. That isn't close to enough to chase a star. It'd be similar to what the Pacers or Magic were working with this summer. However, in the summer of 2025 we can get to a huge cap space number while keeping Jalen and Sengun at their cap holds by not extending them early: $58.4M. That's enough to max any player in the league, then re-sign Jalen and Sengun as RFA's. We'd even have FVV's early bird rights so we can re-sign him at a lower number if we want after we decline his option. The front office has pretty clearly telegraphed that this is the plan. Hence there will be no early extensions for Green or Sengun unless they are absolute stone cold franchise guys for whom we're so interested in keeping them happy that we punt our cap flexibility (I.e., clear top 20-30 players in the league)... or we are able to get them at a number below their cap holds so we get even more space in the summer of '25.
This franchise acts like they’re afraid of RFA. Who was the last player we had that went through it. Carl Landry??
The irony there is one of those confidence building games was the one where Nix allowed a wide open Jimmy Butler alley oop to win the game on a .7 seconds left inbound play that they had just talked about in the huddle seconds before. If those are the bright spots...
I think you misunderstand what I meant by spending this year or next. The $61m they had this offseason had to be used this year or next otherwise the combined cap holds of Green & Sengun are $47,481,582 instead of their combined cost of $13,427,760 right now. Not using that space in this offseason or the next is a net loss of $34,053,822 in cap space. No, they can't create space in 24/25 now that they have spent big on FVV and Brooks (Ugh) - the vast majority of that is spent already. They had $61m to spend between the two offseason's - they chose to spend it now. 25/26 is a different story - To make any useful amount of cap space that offseason is difficult. Not picking up the option on FVV means he has a massive cap hold of 130% (Early Bird) his previous salary - $58,353,009. They'll have $76,240,628 in active salary and $137,157,199 in cap holds for Green, Sengun, FVV, Tate & Jeff Green $25,903,912 between the two meaning $111,253,287 between FVV, Green & Sengun. That accounts for $187,493,915 with three incomplete roster charges pending with the cap predicted to be at $156,200,000. (after renouncing Tate and Jeff Green) Even if you brought FVV back at $35m you'd still be at $164,140,906 which is $7,940,906 over the projected cap. Letting FVV walk that offseason only creates $27,059,094 with 4 incomplete roster charges pending that amount.
