Jabari might not be our franchise player but he is the most important player for next year. I can trust what I’m going to get out of fvv and brooks. I trust in the improvement and trajectory of Jalen and Sengun from their second year vs rookie year. Jabari is the one that needs to make a major leap to replacement level next year and hold his own in the starting lineup. He was the youngest player on the team last year, he has shown major improvement this summer league vs last. If he makes a major leap next year we are playing with house money baby!
I sure hope so. Gotta say, bookers jump shot is sound, butter. Jalens form is a lot more… unorthodox. Jalens shot is easier to block and not as consistent I feel like.
I'm not gathering anyone, I was just replying to a friend and you jumped in. Your English is fine, your reasoning and temper are not. Jalen Green's TS% is inefficient if we ignore context everyone knows that. That's not the discussion you're having. What you were discussing is that context like age and TS% and comparing stats don't matter. This is like sticking your fingers in your ears and saying nananana boo boo. Anyway, this is a Jabari thread and we seem to be at the end of the road with this. Thanks.
Guys like Ant and Booker are seen as "him" and have literally the same ts% and efg% of Green's first two years.
@invocux also just comes up with stuff out of his ass. He said that progression isn't linear and he doesn't buy Green can progress.... Why? Like what makes you conclude he can't progress's when guys like Booker or Ant did? Nail polish? Like what exactly is this dude referring to? He just says ****.
Booker was a slightly better jump shooter his first two years but I don't see anything unorthodox about his form. It's very fluid and one motion like. The only unorthodox part is the cross body load up when he starts his motion from the hip. Both had similar overall efficiencies their first two years but you can see they got there slightly different ways with Booker having the higher 3 pt percentage and Green having the higher 2 pt percentage which matches with the eye test. Booker the better shooter and Green the more dynamic slasher, attacker to the rim off the dribble.
Jabari could be like a Jaren Jackson type player. On the Grizzles, fans of that team even debate if Ja is actually their most important player or if Jaren is even though Ja is seen as the franchise player by national media.
Where tf did i even say that he will not improve? Ofc he'll improve but how much will improve? Isn't it insane to say that sky is the limit for a guy who can't shoot? If you can't shoot your ceiling of your home is your limit. How can i confidently say that he's the #1 when he's not good at the most important aspect of the game. I'm just being realistic and you should too. If he doesn't shoot well next season too we have a problem. This is a make or break season for him in my eyes (an in many ppl's eyes). Ppl like to compare his rookie, sophomore season with Booker's-Ant's rookie/sophomore i want them to have the same energy if he doesn't shoot above 35% next season because Booker was 38%, Ant was 37% from behind the arc in their 3rd season. If he keeps taking the tough 3s, doesn't get better as a 3pt shooter he will not. If he does get better i'll be the #1 Jalen fan here (you will be #2) because i clearly like shooters more than you do.
Their3 pt percentage is irrelevant when you look at their overall scoring efficiency. Ant first two years: 54% ts 51% efg% Booker first two years: 53% ts 48% efg% Green first two years: 54% ts 50% efg% Out of these three, Ant came into the best situation so he has the least excuse for low efficiency due to the best structure out of the three in terms of the team they were drafted to. Booker and Green were drafted to dog **** situations and had by far the worse spacing and support So I don't know why you are hyper focused on 3 pt percentage isolated? Obviously Green compensates in other ways to match or exceed the other two in OVERALL scoring efficiency. Again, How many flukes are in this list? John Drew, a dude who played in the 70s? Wiggins? That's about it and it isn't like Wiggins is a scrub. The level of scoring success at Green's age shows a clear indication of future star possibly superstar talent.
Why are you acting like ts% and fg% are flawless stats that tell you the everything you should know about a player? In 21-22 and 22-23 Grayson Allen's ts% and efg% were higher than DeRozan's ts and efg. Who is the better player of the two?
Let's look at Grayson Allen's scoring profile in terms of self creation: 19% unassisted rate on fgs made in 2021. Derozon in 2021 had a 70% unassisted rate on fgs made. So Derzon scored a lot more on higher volume and did it on significantly more self creation rather than teammates spoon feeding open looks. Ant Edwards his sophomore year was at 55% unassisted rate. Green at 60%, Booker was at 55%. These guys primarily self create and score on much higher volume. Hence why you can't compare players like Grayson Allen to guys like Green or Derzon. They self create their scoring plays. It's why Green has a much higher scoring ceiling than someone like Jabari because Jabari his rookie year scored 27% of his buckets self created while Green scored 50% of his buckets self created in his rookie year.
And fg% is irrelevant when you have ts% and efg% readily available. Those metrics properly weight the value of shot attempts and ability to get to the line. Hence why they are relevant and using fg% and 3pt% is irrelevant.
Now that's being a stats nerd. No matter what i say you will go down the rabbit hole and bring up another stats that is waiting in the shadows to be grabbed to support your argument which is jg isn't a shot chucker. But i'm gonna try. J.Clarkson. 14-15 (rookie season)---> 52.8 ts%, 65% %UAST fgm (Yes i'm evolving ). Can we say that Jalen's ceiling is slightly better JC?
What was his scoring average? 12 ppg? So on lower volume and worse efficiency? And while being 3 years older than Green entering the league(Clarkson was 22 as a rookie and Green was 19).
Also can I just say going to NBA com and reading out a number is not being a nerd. Nerd implies deep intellectual curiosity and time investment in learning something complex and obscure. Reading off a number is something I can teach a toddler to do. Are you dumber than a toddler? When you are being absurd comparing the like of Grayson Allen and Damar Derazon the only way I can show you how absurd the comparison is is by showing the massive difference in the way they score to show why one is significantly more talented than the other. Unassisted rate on fgs made is one way as it shows how much of their scoring is through self creation
There's nothing being wrong with being a stat nerd bc he's using data to back up his opinion. It's an effective way to back your stance in a debate using numbers instead of emotional reasoning. It's easy to state an opinion, but an opinion with numbers is more easy to validate. Unless u are accusing him of cherry picking data which is to choose/pick data and ignoring the ones that fks up his opinion that's a different story.
I’m sry but Jalen is not a good player. He’s one of the worst defenders and just a shot chucker, even if 3 guys are on him. That’s why he needed a better coach, which we addressed. I think Ime is gonna push him and put him in position to be that star we know he can be
I'm sorry but bring something new to the conversation rather than regurgitating the same premise with slightly different variation in wording. Yes I already know this is your opinion of Green. Address points made rather than restating your premise. That's how conversations work.
That’s BS. They were disappointing as rookies, far from transcendental. Zion and Ja were maybe the last really good rookies, with Luka the year before. OTOH there are literally hundreds of players who were meh or disappointing when they came-in. Few of them rose to the top, most of them stayed meh…
