Great breakdown. My only real disagreement is on Whitmore, and it’s not really that I disagree. I just have no clue about his ceiling.
Yeah that's very fair. I was basing it primarily on physical attributes/athleticism, what I have seen of his current game and his draft profiles. At the very least, he's a truck with a nice shooting stroke who maintains his position inside - that's a pretty high ceiling for a wing of his size/build I think. His shooting is why I put him above Sengun just in the sense that a good 3 pt shooter can fill up the scoreboard quicker than an ok one who's a presence inside (and should be used inside where very few in the league can defend him.) I think his size/length/athleticism means he has the tools to be a pretty potent offensive player too if he buys in on that side. I do agree though, he's the hardest one to place and if you removed him from all of my lists I'd be comfortable with the remaining 5 players ranked in each category.
Yeah very fair. I think for me the reason I put Tari higher than Sengun is that he's also a legit rebounding force already on offense but he has that Rodman-esque dog in him and his hustle is a tier all of itself. Also not mad if you put Sengun higher than Whitmore, I could easily do the same, I mostly put Whitmore above Sengun because the shooting stroke looks sweet and I think he projects to be a better 3pt shooter which means more points per shot overall. I'd still consider Sengun the better overall offensive player, and he'll clearly be top 3 post players in the league for a LONG time (though again that's another little reason I put him lower, modern offenses don't put as many post opportunities in the game plan. If this was 10-15 years ago I'd have him higher than Whitmore no question.)
Fine here is a list of players that took 18 or more shots and averaged less than 22 (Klay's was 21.9 which is technically less than 22 and why he appears in the pivot)... get these scrubs out of the NBA huh? The point is, though his scoring may not be impressive to you, not everyone is able to do it, even some of the better and more experienced shooters/scorers in the league as evidenced by the table above. You don't have to like the kid, but his potential is special whether you want to admit it or not. Now whether he lives up to that potential is another debate entirely.
Not even gonna compare their 2022-23 fg% with Green since they are veterans and Green is new to the league but every single one of those players' sophomore fg% was higher than Green's sophomore fg% except for Rozier who is a major chucker. But that's the thing potential is such a loosely used term among nba fans not even just among nba fans among sports fans it doesn't mean anything anymore. He's athletic sure but athletic guards are dime a dozen you can't seperate yourself from others by just being athletic. Does Green have high bbiq? I don't think so. He takes the toughest shots, it quickly turns into iso game when he gets the ball. Sure he's a s.guard and doesn't have to be god tier on defense but he looks so lost on defense like he has negative defensive bbiq. I mean he's not Desmond Bane. When Jalen isn't scoring he doesn't contribute to anything that's why when he is bad he's literally unwatchable. So what potential are we really talking about? Jalen has to make his shots because when he doesn't i just want him to sit. That's why i think if he doesn't turn into well above average 3pt shooter among the shooting guards he isn't the cornerstone of this franchise. What is your stance gonna be if he shoots below 35% from behind the arc next season again?
So I'm just coming into this argument blind and have no clue how this debate started, but why are we using FG% as a barometer of basketball IQ and efficiency like it's the 1980s? TS% is a much better barometer of a scorer's efficiency, and of the guys listed above, Green's sophomore TS% was higher than all of them except Kuzma. For context, James Harden has consistently shot a below average FG% most of his career, but he's probably one of the most efficient, high IQ players of the last 25 years. He gets to the line and shoots a high volume of 3-pointers and so does Jalen. The longer he's in the league and as his volume and 3-point percentage tick upward with time, he's just going to get more efficient.
You mean like some of the scrubs below. Seriously though. His performance thus far makes me confident that that he is going to be extended. Whether it's a max or not will depend on how well he plays this season. If his efficiency and defense improves (and I have no reason to believe with a better coach and system that they won't) then he gets paid.
Agree regarding TS% as a better metric and believe as well that his efficiency will improve. This started with the whole scoring based on number of shots averaged last season so was playing the hand I was dealt
Yeah, I agree. He's so good at making tougher shots. The post fade-away and pull up 3's in transition look elite though. Maybe he should just take on the extra defense even if wide open, and take a dribble, then shoot on those catch and shoot plays....
Don't talk about basketball if you don't understand basic scoring efficiency metrics. We don't use fg% in 2023. That is a early 2000s thing when people didn't know better. Ts% and efg%. Learn them.
Green also played in Silas system with kpj as pg. it is hard to judge how badly it effected his efficiency.
Very much agree. Udoka would be an absolute idiot to not utilize Jabari in the post. that turnaround is absolute money.
Nah. That's just psychological, they will sort it out pretty quickly. That kind of thing will get you benched under Udoka (missing open 3's) and you'll be amazed how quickly these guys will change in order to stay on the floor. It will help tremendously if our playmakers are better at hitting shooters in the right spots too.
I think the base offensive package would look something like FVV or Jalen or KPJ or Amen being the PNR ball handler, Sengun and Jabari the screen setters and from that action depending how the defense is playing the actions, you can chose from a laundry list of options from guard penetration to Jabari or Sengun being roll men to Jabari or Sengun popping from the screen and being utilized in the high post area where they can do their thing(playmake or high post scoring moves). All depends on how the defenses guard the initial pnr action.
THIS. Last non-Jabari post in this thread, but there is no way to calculate the effect of poor coaching/system and the fact that we were tanking on individual player performance. Call it the conspiracy theorist in me, but is it just a coincidence that the two players (Sengun and Tari) that had to fight the most (during the Silas era) to get minutes looked to be the most consistent and effective Rockets. I think their attitude was they could not afford to be lackadaisical or not give 100% effort considering the minutes distribution.
I think the reason is Sengun and tari needed less guidance and coaching. Any player who needed guidance from vets, coaching struggled, Jabari and green first and foremost. They possibly can make unexpected jumps this year.
Kiddo, the point was that most NBA players can score if you allow them to hurt your team by chucking that much... you never disproved that. Did you forget what you were even discussing? So show me the guys that were allowed to chuck 18 shots per game that DIDN'T score 20+.... I'll save you the trouble, you can't because there aren't any. Even if you look at per 36 numbers you won't find any. Scoring 20+ on 18 shots a game is basically a given in the NBA, it's not an accomplishment unless you can score efficiently.... and 22 points on 18 shots isn't efficient.
He's been comfortably driving and stopping for the midrange, that makes you unguardable and get rhythm. Decades back Matt Bullard use to remind us the essence of it.
Is it really that difficult for you to see Green having a basically more physically gifted Booker ceiling? I think that's a very reasonable comp to what he can be. A more physically gifted Booker is a perennial first to second team player.
