This is a step forward for America. Race based affirmative action hasn't solved any problems. First, it diminishes the standing of those African Americans and Hispanics that benefit from it, because others (rightly or in some cases wrongly) assume that they've had a helping hand in gaining admission to the universities. There's resentment from others, and seeds of self-doubt in those who benefitted from AA. Second, my experience has shown that many of the African Americans and Hispanics that benefit from AA are precisely the ones that don't need it, because they are already well off and went to good schools growing up. They just happen to have a different shade of skin color or have Hispanic family backgrounds. Skin color and having a Hispanic last name shouldn't be the drivers of who needs help. Third, Asian Americans, who have also faced incredible discrimination over the course of US history, are unfairly hurt by AA. Generalizing here a bit, but their families put a strong focus on education and hard work in their kids' schooling, so why should they not benefit from all that hard work? This should advance racial relations in the US, not hurt them. This decision is long overdue.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said. These non-white smart kids are going to be just as successful getting into prestigious schools as they are now. If Affirmative action was what its opponents played it up to be, the Ivy League schools would look like HBCUs. But in reality being a black or brown student at these schools is still really uncommon and the kids who are there are the top of the top.
The Equal Protection Clause is used to justify striking down racially-conscious college admissions. Everyone has the same protection. It sounds good. The Equal Protection Clause cannot be used to justify equality for women compared to men. Not everyone has the same protection. Women are subjected to state policies regarding their lives during pregnancy or when they are about to become pregnant. Women who desire equal opportunities cannot achieve them when the state burdens them with obligations they didn't choose, even if those burdens are a result of rape or incest. It sounds inconsistent.
Cool beans for bringing that in here. What's important and relevant is that many of the anti-LGBT+ laws recently enacted are unconstitutional under the same - the Equal Protection Clause. Judges have already started striking them down once challenged.
Anyone that sees a black doctor or a hispanic lawyer and thinks they 'benefitted' from AA is not only racist but also stupid. Usually, the two go hand in hand but... Racist, for having that opinion in the first place. Assuming that they didn't deserve it because of their race. Stupid, for ignoring that obstacles that person had to clear to even get there. For every 'benefit' that a black person had from AA there were 5 other obstacles in their way to even get to that point.
Along these lines, for every black or Hispanic person who has benefitted from AA, there are 5 white persons who have benefitted from legacy and “daddy made a big donation” admissions. I was certainly the beneficiary of the former when it came to financial aid. I’d be interested in learning how many recipients of AA come from well-off families - I definitely observed that in my own HS graduation class but said class was hardly representative of America (mostly white, mostly middle to upper middle class), so I’m not inclined to broadly extrapolate my observations. I am mostly concerned about the future academic opportunities of those from less economically advantaged backgrounds. Hopefully, universities will make it a greater priority to recruit smart and talented persons from economically and academically disadvantaged backgrounds.
The late Colin Powell spoke and wrote a lot about how much AA benefited him and few looked down upon him or considered him rising to his position as Chair of Joint Chiefs and later Secretary of State wasn’t earned.
The issue is admissions aren't race neutral. Yeah, its against the law to discriminate on race but that doesn't stop it from happening. Try giving your child the name DeAndre and see how things go for him, the black name studies should be an alarm bell that this country isn't ready for 'color-blind', there are still people alive that lived through Civil Rights. People are very naïve if they think there won't be racially biased admission officers that will make sure their schools have less of whatever group they don't like and good luck proving that they racially discriminated against anyone. They just accepted more whites on 'merit', how can you say otherwise? If California is any indication black and hispanics and natives will definitely see a hit...and this is in liberal California! I can't imagine how it will go for students in Arkansas or Mississippi? I really wouldn't worry about a school like Harvard, they will have no issue attracting and admitting diverse classes but the other schools I would worry about.
I'm not responding to low IQ / low information posters making broad generalizations. If you want to help poor people lift themselves up out of poverty, then do that. Don't conflate that with race, and don't be racist against Asian Americans who prioritized education from an early age.
I think there is a good argument for considering class in admissions and while race and class are connected in this country there are those of historically disadvantaged who are very well off. Consider a Bronny James who has both the advantages of coming from great wealth but also with a lot of athletic talent I doubt many would think he deserves benefits of AA or other racially based programs to help the historically disadvantaged. This is why from what I’ve seen so far of the ruling it might not be that bad from a social Justice perspective. A university could still consider an applicants race when considering how race affected that applicant’s life.
there is a simple solution to all the points raised above. reframe the criteria such that it's based on income. Lebron James' kids should not have greater access to higher education than the children of a West Virginia coal miner.
I always enjoy it when non Asians say they speak for Asian and claim that they are doing things for Asians. When I got into CAL there actually was a quota on Asians. My freshman roommate was a black guy from South Central LA who did get in on affirmative action. I didn’t resent him or look down on him. As it happened my second year roommate was a white guy who got in on an athletic scholarship and he himself said academically he didn’t deserve to be there. I didn’t resent him either. also Asians aren’t monolithic There are many Asians such as Hmong who come from communities beset with crime and don’t fit the model minority stereotype. There has been concern among the Hmong community about academic performance and the U of Mn has had programs addressing that.
Says the guy that thinks that there could be a good reason to discriminate against blacks and hispanics based on what they accomplish. I wonder what is the 'rightly' way to assume that your black doctor doesn't deserve to be a doctor?
Let me guess. A small handful of usual-suspect white guys all rallying in here to excuse the decision.
I think we should be concerned. We have too many colleges and universities for the # of kids projected to be headed to college, and competition for every butt to put in a classroom seat has already heated up a great deal. Tuition-driven small colleges, in particular, will find it increasingly perilous to admit students from economically shaky backgrounds at great discount just based on the risk / reward data. Tuition discounts have primarily operated as wealth redistribution where full-freight students partially underwrite less-advantaged students, but all of that erodes under student candidate scarcity. Colleges are now competing by discounting tuition to those students most likely to keep paying the partial bills that they receive. Many schools are already in a death spiral. TL;DR: It's a great time to be alive if you're a conservative who hates higher education! The new USSC decision won't hasten the segment's demise but it can reduce the opportunities for some candidates of color. (Interestingly, though, more and more white males are simply not applying at all, so that's in the mix too.)
Replying to myself, it seems to me that this gives administrators a significant amount of leeway to consider race as a factor on an individual basis and how it contributes to the university. Race is part of a person’s story, and considering how it impacted the individual and contributed to the university still appears to be a valid consideration.
Whatever your opinion, the stigma of affirmative action is real. It is one of the unfortunate disadvantages of affirmative action. A more balanced approach could potentially lead to a better outcome, eliminating the stigma for future generations while still considering the reality of bias against certain minorities based on their race as part of the admissions process. Let’s see how universities actually change their admission policies. If they can strike the mentioned balance, it might be a long-term win-win situation.
