I'm not even sure where they could put a difference making bat. Let's be real here. Maldy and abreu aren't going anywhere. I'd like them to go all in for cease and a high leverage reliever. Even if it means trading (shudders) Gilbert.
I don't want Gilbert dealt. I think the status quo is better than that. A bat is only needed if Yordan and/or Brantley don't return. If they both do then the 9 starters and primary bench players are set. The priority needs to be pitching. At least 1 but really 2 quality bullpen arms to replace Martinez and zdubin, and relegate Montero to 13th pitcher is needed ASAP. A quality SP that can be the #4 starter in the playoffs is needed by the deadline. I'm very uncomfortable if France, Blanco, or Urquidy is the #4 starter in October. Less uncomfortable with Urquidy, but still not ideal.
Abreu's OPS is over .800 going back to the first HR in Oakland a month ago. He hasn't really been a problem, but because he was so god awful to start the season every time he has a bad few games people act like he sucks again. Even if he does fall back off, we probably have an in house option with Diaz. I know Brown wants a bat, but with Abreu back to life at 1B and Yordan/Diaz getting a lot of the DH/LF AB's , I don't really think offense is as big a problem as it was a few weeks ago. If Brantley comes back as a situational guy we may have the best offense in baseball already on the roster.
I can't see the team going after Graveman. Didn't they choose Neris over him and let him walk specifically because they didn't like his performance vs LHH? I think they will target someone else rather than say "well, I guess it's OK now"
agree with this, except i'm indifferent about adding a reliever. there's a lot of luck involved with your pen, with who and what amount of your arms get hot at the right time. we saw it play out last year with this exact lot of relievers. if there's a dirt cheap rental option for the rest of the season, and they are going to completely remove montero in some way or another, i guess i'd be for that, but as it currently stands, pressly, abreu, neris, plus whoever is in good form out of stanek, montero, martinez, maton, etc, is a good enough pen. they don't need a bat if brantley is coming back. their lineup with diaz catching, and a healthy yordan and hopefully brantley, and an even average performing abreu, would arguably be the best in baseball. there's really nowhere to slot another bat. health is all that matters. just gotta get into the playoffs and hope they are all healthy once the postseason starts. about abreu: as bad and disappointing he's been, this past month he's shown all is not lost and he's still capable of pounding the ball. that's all that matters at this point. he's shown that the upside is still there and there's definitely hope of him getting hot in the playoffs. which is basically what yuli did last season. i'm all for adding a top starting pitcher. tough to assess whether rental or multiple year guy would be the move.
I thought Nook (or maybe it was reported by an reporter) say Astros wanted 2 years while Graveman wanted 3 which he got from Chicago.
I agree with this. If Brantley comes back Houston’s position player roster is full. I don’t think he is coming back. But even still, the need isn’t an everyday bat, it’s more of a quality 12th/13th position player to provide insurance against having to rely on Julks or Kessinger or Salazar in the event of an injury or major slump by one of the established everyday guys. Ideally it would be a lefthanded bat who can passably play at least 2 positions on the field. Now that Abreu and Diaz have shown they belong in the lineup (and can be justified in the middle of the lineup), once Alvarez comes back they should have 8 good bats in the lineup: Diaz, Abreu, Altuve, Pena, Bregman, Tucker, McCormick, and Alvarez, with either Maldy or Meyers as the 9th guy depending on where Diaz plays. Looking at the market, I think Yasmani Grandal makes the most sense. He can play C and 1B, switch hits, and would allow Baker to play Diaz at DH on days where he doesn’t catch. Grandal is also a rental on a significant salary so he shouldn’t cost too much in terms of prospects. That all assumes the white Sox sell which isn’t guaranteed at all.
I would be interested in any insight I could be "misremembering" I remember something about Graveman's poor performance vs LHH as a big factor.
If you bring in Grandal you have to DFA Maldy or Diaz will never hit again, is my fear. The main thing we need is enough guys on the roster that aren't terrible that we can ship out/send down all Dusty's pets which is what yo uare saying about the 12/13th position player I think. ****, this is just so easy and that's what makes it so frustrating. All the pieces are there or will be there shortly.
The “one shot one kill” Astros deadline deal: Astros get: C Yasmani Grandal RP Kendall Graveman SP Lance Lynn White Sox get: RHP Forrest Whitley RHP Shawn Dubin C Cesar Salazar Playoff roster: 2B Altuve SS Pena LF Alvarez 3B Bregman RF Tucker 1B Abreu C Grandal DH Diaz CF McCormick Bench: Dubon, Maldonado, Meyers, Kessinger/Brantley Rotation: Valdez, Brown, Javier, France Bullpen: Urquidy, Lynn, Blanco, Montero/TBD, Stanek, Maton, Neris, Graveman, Pressly White Sox shed significant payroll and don’t degrade their project beyond this season. This deal probably costs them less than 1 2023 win. Astros address all 3 of their “needs” without giving up any meaningful prospect capital or blocking any injured players or prospects.
At this point, trading for a catcher will be wasted assets unless Maldy is part of the deal. We need a consistent starter and a different look guy in the pen (and maybe that therapist from Ted Lasso to help give our guys some confidence and swagger).
That is a ridiculous return. The White Sox get absolutely no potential impact players. Whitley is constantly hurt, has not pitched up to his talent when actually on the field and has to be put on the MLB roster because out of options. Shawn Dubin spent years in the minors, git hurt and lost his velocity. Finally made it to the bigs and got rocked. Now he sits on the bench while Dusty "has to" pitch Montero because there is nobody else. Salazar is the kind of guy you can pick up off of waiver wire for free and have a dozen to choose from. Either way it's stupid, but I think the White Sox would be better off just handing the Astros those 3 players, but only on the condition they keep those 3 worthless players instead of making them take them in the trade.
Ok if you’re gonna lob insults at least provide details. How much surplus value does the package of Lynn, Graveman, and Grandal have? Lynn has ~$10M left on his contract and he’s been awful this season. His contract is underwater. The White Sox would be served to dump him and save that money for next season. If they want to get prospects for him then they’ll need to pay down his salary. Grandal also has about $10M left on his deal and has been replacement level this season. He probably has a bit of surplus value because of his position and track record but it is very limited. A high risk/reward prospect like Dubin or Whitley is an appropriate return for a player like that. Again, if the Sox want better prospects for Grandal or Lynn, they’ll need to pay down their contract. Graveman is owed $12M over the next 1.5 seasons, and despite his shiny era, he’s been replacement level. His contract is arguably underwater but in no world is he worth major prospects unless Chicago pays down some money. A fringey prospect like Salazar (who fits in the 20-40 range on Houston’s list depending on who you ask) is a fine return for a relatively expensive middling RP. Whitley and Dubin offer upside. Houston has had need for 40 man spots earlier this season, why do you think they haven’t dfa’ed whitley or Dubin? Oh yeah, because both guys have elite stuff that if they stay healthy and harness they will have tremendous value. For the white Sox this trade would be more about saving the $30M+ than the prospects, although getting a solid 3rd C and a couple of high risk high upside arms is a nice get for them but realistic in a sellers market. For the Astros they get a great 12th position player in Grandal and 2 pitchers they hope to improve back into an 8th inning guy for the playoffs and a solid BoR SP who can eat innings in the regular season, and do it without giving up any major prospects.
Please accept my apology for the insult. The bottom line is that in THIS market any legitimate MLB contributor will have value. Based on various salaries and time frames maybe that is just a lowly 35-40 grade prospect But each of the 3 you mentioned are lower than that. You specifically chose prospects that would not hurt the Astris but require the White Sox to put on the 40 man roster despite not being worthy of it. That's why they would be better off giving the players away for free than accepting the players you chose. Some team would offer 3 players who aren't even on their 30 top prospects, but not required on 40 man and that would be a better offer.
You’re suggesting the White Sox 40 man roster is deeper than Houston’s, which is asinine. Salazar is ranked 23rd on the recently released fangraphs Astros prospect list. Whitley is ranked 24th. Dubin is not ranked in that list but is 24th in the current mlb.com list. These guys are obviously not DFA fodder.
I disagree but understand your point and will soften my stance. I had never heard of Salazar on any prospects lists prior to making the opening day roster. He did not receive a fair chance but did not show even a glimmer that he was a MLB player. I don't think he's Worth a 40 man spot and would not be surprised if the Astros are desperate to get him off of theirs. Dubin is JAG. He may have value as a AAAA guy but I don't see the Sox actually better with him in their system. Whitley must be on the 26 man roster next year or waived and there is no reason to think he deserves it or he could improve a team
