11th-hour brinkmanship from the freight rail industry, its unions and both parties in Congress.

Thanks for showing the numbers.

It’s amusing that democrats are getting the blame even though they voted for the sick days in almost lock step, but that’s just how things work.

 

If they would of done nothing, the whole country would be mad at them for not fixing inflation. Considering that every decision you make has an effect, you would think the Democrats made the right one, even though it ****ed over a number of people. Democrats just lost the house, just narrowly kept the Senate, with a presidential election coming up. Maybe I'm a big picture person and not always focused on the small picture, but it appears to me the right decision was made. I don't like that this has to be political, but the reality is, that it has to be. Either you piss off the swing voters or you piss of union workers.

I sympathize with the union workers a whole lot and think it's bullshit that they have to give 30 days notice to be sick (WTF) but to pretend that this wouldn't have political implications in such a polarizing period in time, I think it would have been dumb to let the strike continue. Lost a battle, continue fighting the war.

 

Again, I was specifically talking about Biden's claim about being the most pro-union president in history.

I am not impressed by what the unions got. This was never about money, but even if it was 24% raise over 5 years with inflation like it is, is not especially impressive. Though I don't know this for a fact, I suspect their wages hadn't increased in proportion to their workload nor their companies' increased profits over the past decade.

As for what Biden could have done, I'm no expert in this area, but I'm pretty sure he could have (and still can) issue an executive order that all federal contractors under the Rail Labor Act must have 7 paid sick days. Instead, as I said earlier, he just punted the issue to Congress, knowing this unacceptable contract would be forced onto the workers.

Dare I say that Biden Admin and Dem Leadership (and of course Rep Leadership) are engaging in election(ish) denialism by going against what the unions voted for? Maybe this is even worse, because they acknowledge the voting results but DGAF about it and do what they want to do anyway.

 

Right, and even ignoring his time in the Senate... as President he got a major pro-union infrastructure bill passed and even the CHIPs bill has union provisions applauded by the AFL-CIO.

Truthfully I am not sure who the most union friendly president is as there really hasn't been many, but I don't see how the railroad deal completely takes Biden out of the running since the union did get several

Frankly, it should matter more what the unions think and 66% of the 12 railroad unions agreed to Biden's tentative deal.

Why do you assume Biden punted it to Congress when the federal government spent months trying to negotiate?

Instead you could assume the Biden administration explored those options of using an executive order but ultimately decided it wouldn't work? A Biden administration who had the first union member to serve as Sec of Labor in 45 years in Marty Walsh.

Again.... 66% of the unions voted for the negotiated Biden deal..... And seems like you might hurt yourself trying to stretch and tie this to "election denialism".

And as mentioned.... it was GOP members of Congress that tanked the sick leave bill that House and Senate Democrats voted for.

Lastly, this very well could become a bigger political issue where Biden/Dems put pressure on the GOP to enact of broader worker right's bill that could be expansive or could just involve workers in critical industries. I wouldn't discount the notion that railroad unions get their sick time, but it may have to wait until the 2024 election to really ramp up. The GOP as a whole has made inroads with the working class... on culture war issues... but have stopped short supporting unions and workers right.

 

Agreed, what the unions think should matter more than what I think - and the unions voted down the agreement. So that's what Biden should roll with. % of unions who supported doesn't matter because the vote has to be unanimous. That's how the voting works - to deny the result is, IMO, wrong.

I don't assume Biden punted it to Congress; it's a fact that he did. They just voted on it. It did happen.

In any case, it's not yet all over. As you said, could come up again in 2024. There's also a chance that it could happen sooner than that:

It looks like an Executive Order would indeed work. It's just that Biden is choosing to not use it.

 

I think it's far more informative that 2/3s of unions supported the deal than it didn't meet 100% approval. Certainly more relevant to what the "union thinks" IMO. Agree to disagree.

Even though I worded that clunkily.. you clearly understood what I meant when you posted the link below.

Seems presumptive to think it would indeed work when we see how Biden's EO for student loan forgiveness is going or EOs in general. Per your quote, this would have to have been tied to mandate for federal contractors so there was probably worry that it could torpedoed in courts.

 

the admin averted a shutdown and continue to do the work quietly to get what union members wanted … another Joe just get it done behind the scene

“After months of negotiations, the IBEW’s Railroad members at four of the largest U.S. freight carriers finally have what they’ve long sought but that many working people take for granted: paid sick days.

This is a big deal, said Railroad Department Director Al Russo, because the paid-sick-days issue, which nearly caused a nationwide shutdown of freight rail just before Christmas, had consistently been rejected by the carriers. It was not part of last December’s congressionally implemented update of the national collective bargaining agreement between the freight lines and the IBEW and 11 other railroad-related unions.

“We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.”​

 

I'm not saying rail road workers don't deserve what they got but railroad workers were doing very well. I know a a couple for one company and they got another friend a job and he was on FB talking about how much money he was making. For years it's been a great middle class that doesn't require a degree

I'm not anti worker and don't really understand the paid sick leave issue in terms of how many days other workers get but working for the railroad is a great job regardless of sick leave

 

I'm getting the feeling that this guy is a member of CF

 

@Haymitch @dmoneybangbang might be interested in the deal

 

Hadn't seen this news. Thanks for alerting me.

 

A simple Google search says they get 45-65k per year. One of the first link says a Union Pacific worker grabs 96k. Not too comfortable if you dock sick and vacation days.

LA and long beach port unions struck a labor deal other port unions are looking at. Longshoremen there can earn upwards of 200k so maybe you're thinking about those folks

 

Dock vacation days? You're smarter than that Do you know any railroad workers? We're talking about a non degreed job. $65k is a lot, more than a teacher

Edit: they actually make about as much as teachers but I think they do a lot of overtime

 

@Invisible Fan

I wouldn’t trust any Google search on manual labor jobs.The first refinery operator search shows 57K to 67k. Refinery guys make waaay more than that

 

I don't have a problem with anyone getting paid. There is definitely a growing wealth divide but its not because of salaries as much as the wealthy's asset values increasing but good jobs and skilled labor jobs are keeping up and working for a railroad in Middle Class America has been considered a great job all my life

This was is from something called the National Rail Labor Conference

https://raillaborfacts.org/total-compensation/

 

The new union contract got them a 22% raise and now their making close to 100k buddy.....

 

Like I wrote I don't begrudge them but I really didn't pay attention to this thread at the start. I've known of a few people who worked for the railroad who started in the 50s who have since passed and the guys I know now have done very well. I responded because of some of the earlier posts of people who think they don't

Pretty much every union pays well

Edit: except teachers but with teachers you have to factor in the fact they work 9 months and it's truly a public job. Firefighters and police officers make money with the side hustles

 

The infrastructure bill that biden signed last year mandates that majority of the 20k+ Jobs that the government is funding need to be union jobs. Unions are in crazy demand right now and their printing insane money.

The railroads wanted a chunk of the infrastructure money so the government threatened to withheld money if they didn't give the workers sick time



Biden is the most pro worker POTUS in modern history and he gets no respect from the lefty trolls who bootlick bernie. It's sad but they have no real agenda but to attack biden @Haymitch

 

I wasn't using Google as a point of debate and more curious how much they originally made to cause them to strike. I left this out originally but I assume anyone claiming Google for something is curious or would like a more accurate number for info that's more guarded.

If @astros123 ballpark of 80k pre-agreement is more accurate 80k that isn't bad for manual labor though inflation and manual hours worked to get to that number doesn't take a backseat with the higher wage.