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Are "Hate Speech" and "Disinformation" often just an excuse for government censorship?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Jun 17, 2023.

  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Also @AroundTheWorld

    When has the government tried to outlaw racist rhetoric. It's not as prominent as it was 100 years ago but the Klu Klux Klan is still around as well as their propaganda.

    Misinformation is another issue

    Edit: when has racist or any form of hateful rhetoric been censored?
     
    #61 pgabriel, Jun 19, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2023
  2. FranchiseBlade

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    This is a really strange post. I never once insinuated that white people are fragile when it comes to discussing racism from whites directed to other minorities yet are upset that they can't say the N word without pushback.

    Yet, some people clearly fit both of those criteria. I am not nor I have ever said all white people are like that. You are constructing positions that I've never advocated. But there are conservatives that argue for both of those things.

    You seem like you are in favor of one of those positions yourself.
     
  3. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    saw that coming a mile away. Nice. You got nothing. Like I said before, stop being a racist prick.
     
  4. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Again, I never said anything against any race at all. I did speak verifiable facts about some individuals.
     
  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Stunning numbers among Dems in RCOR's new poll on free speech and censorship:

    47% of Dems say free speech should be legal 'only under certain circumstances.

    34% of Dems say Americans 'have too much freedom'

    75% of Dems say government has a responsibility to censor 'hateful' social media posts

    Only 31% strongly agree with the statement, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    You can just sense it. The hate the leftists display even on this forum is shocking. If they could, they would love to silence those who disagree with them.
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Looks like two closet democrats in action.

     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's much harder to champion values of liberal speech in this current era of politics. If there were a sliding scale of tolerance where 1 = Least Tolerant and 10 = Most Tolerant, I'd say we're at a 4 right now.

    In fairness, my scale changes over time where I'd be around a 3-3.5 during the Trump era where the media became even more weaponized under him and Bannon. I think I'm around a 5 on tolerance, but who knows.

    Some rightfully fear Trump/MAGA as an existential threat to the nation (perhaps to a degree to where the other side thinks Wokes are the exististential threat), so they're fine with the media/tech giants packaging up convenient, solvable or easily attributable news bites. Devil has always been in the details.

    tbf, the government does not need to step up efforts of censorship to control the flow of information. Corporate consolidation and personal tendencies to latch onto market cap as credibility is more than half the battle.


    I wonder how Koppel reconciles social media speech rights vs journalism as he framed it.
     
    #68 Invisible Fan, Sep 25, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2023
  9. AroundTheWorld

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    https://www.courthousenews.com/supr...-administrations-online-misinformation-fight/

    Supreme Court takes up fight over Biden administration’s online misinformation fight
    Red states claim the Biden administration censored conservatives in its attempt to fight misinformation online.

    WASHINGTON (CN) — The Biden administration can continue its efforts to fight misinformation on social media, the Supreme Court said on Friday in an order agreeing to pause a lower court order and hear the case later this term.

    Justices Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas, and Neil Gorsuch publicly dissented from the ruling, calling the government’s misinformation efforts a coordinated federal campaign against disfavored views on important published issues.

    Alito went as far as to say the court’s decision to grant the stay amounted to giving the government the green light to skew online information.

    “At this time in the history of our country, what the court has done, I fear, will be seen by some as giving the government a green light to use heavy-handed tactics to skew the presentation of views on the medium that increasingly dominates the dissemination of news,” Alito wrote. “That is most unfortunate.”

    The conservative justice called the decision highly disturbing, saying endorsing government censorship was against the values of democracy.

    “Government censorship of private speech is antithetical to our democratic form of government, and therefore today’s decision is highly disturbing,” Alito wrote.

    Alito said the government was not entitled to a stay because it would not actually be harmed by the lower court ruling.

    “The injunction applies only when the government crosses the line and begins to coerce or control others’ exercise of their free-speech rights,” Alito wrote. “Does the government think that the First Amendment allows executive branch officials to engage in such conduct? Does it have plans for this to occur between now and the time when this case is decided?”

    Alito noted that the majority failed to explain its order in the case — a common practice on the high court’s emergency docket.

    “To prevent the continuation of this campaign, these officials were enjoined from either ‘coerc[ing]’ social media companies to engage in such censorship or ‘active[ly] control[ling]’ those companies’ decisions about the content posted on their platforms,” Alito wrote. “Today, however, a majority of the court, without undertaking a full review of the record and without any explanation, suspends the effect of that injunction until the court completes its review of this case, an event that may not occur until late in the spring of next year.”

    President Joe Biden asked the high court for assistance in fighting a red state lawsuit against his communications with social media companies. The White House and other federal agencies have tried to assist X, formerly Twitter, Facebook, and other platforms of inaccurate or harmful information posted to their sites.

    Disinformation online about elections and the Covid-19 pandemic proved a challenge for governments and social platforms. Former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said the president saw removing harmful misinformation as a responsibility of the social sites. In light of this goal, the Biden administration shared information with platforms to help mitigate harm.

    Missouri and Louisiana, however, saw the effort as more harm than help. They said the Biden administration targeted conservative political views, urging social platforms to remove these viewpoints in a violation of the First Amendment. The states claim the Biden administration’s communications with these sites amounted to a federal censorship enterprise.

    The two conservative-led states sued the Biden administration seeking to put an end to what they saw as conservative censorship. Examples of this activity, according to the states, include emails the White House digital director for the government’s Covid-19 response sent to Twitter about Robert F. Kennedy’s anti-vaccine tweets.

    “Social media platforms once provided ‘the most powerful mechanisms available to a private citizen to make his or her voice heard,’” Elizabeth Murrill, Louisiana’s solicitor general, wrote in the state’s brief. “Under pressure of federal censorship, that is no longer true — a situation that is intolerable to the First Amendment.”

    A federal judge handed the states a win, ordering the White House and other federal agencies to stop communicating with social media companies. The Fifth Circuit limited the ruling but upheld some limits on the government’s communications.

    The Biden administration then turned to the Supreme Court in September, asking for emergency relief.

    “It is axiomatic that the government is entitled to provide the public with information and to ‘advocate and defend its own policies,’” U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar told the justices. “A central dimension of presidential power is the use of the Office’s bully pulpit to seek to persuade Americans — and American companies — to act in ways that the president believes would advance the public interest.”

    The Supreme Court offered a temporary stay to review the case, but before the justices could issue an order on the matter, the Fifth Circuit agreed to review the case again. Missouri and Louisiana asked the appeals court to reconsider extending its prior ruling to encase more federal agencies. In a highly unusual move, the Fifth Circuit agreed to grant rehearing before the high court got to review its first look at the case.

    With the appeals court back in the picture, the justices allowed their temporary pause to expire. The Fifth Circuit then granted the states’ request to expand its prior ruling, sending the issue back up to the justices.

    The justices will hear the case early next year.
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    The right engages in censorship as much as anyone else. It's not a dem vs republican thing.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    No, where is the common sense?

    In Germany you can't use Nazi terms.....that is a reasonable thing

    There are some things so heinous that they should be banned.

    ATW - you can't even vote? Why are you so concerned with the USA's situation? Were you politically active in Germany?

    I don't think Freedom of speech means you can say anything - there are some things we can all agree are not good speech....

    DD
     
    #71 DaDakota, Oct 21, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
  12. LosPollosHermanos

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    The problem is who decided what misinformation is? It’s tricky.


    This country was founded on freedom of speech so combating misinformation isn’t easy
     
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  13. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Protecting unpopular speech is the entire point of free speech. Popular speech requires no protection. Censorship is bad. If you don't like people saying pro-Nazi things, say anti-Nazi things. If you don't like people saying pro-Commie things, say anti-Commie things, etc. The solution to bad speech is not censorship, it is more good speech. Let the marketplace of ideas decide what is good or bad speech, not a censor.
     
  14. dmoneybangbang

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    Our enemies are using our "Free speech" against us, Russia and China (among others) are both trying to bombard us with disinformation to sow chaos. Frankly I think it's way overdue to overhaul the bill of rights to reflect the 21st century.

    It feels the far right is turning "free speech" into "free from accountability".
     
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  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Nothing to do with popularity, some speech is so egregious it should not be tolerated....

    Like yelling fire in a crowded theater when there is none....

    Words can hurt people and inspire others, people should be held accountable for what they say if it leads to harm....

    Especially now with social media which amplifies speech, and leaves it on a site to be seen by way more people than someone on a soapbox in Iowa.

    DD
     
  16. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    It is easy but social media companies profit too much from it.
     
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  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Apparently when college students say things that some find offensive then the college presidents should be fired.
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    And I your other thread you’ve basically agreed that hate speech should be restricted. For that matter much of the antisemitic speech is based on disinformation and you yourself have pointed out how much of it is Hamas propaganda. Do yi think that that speech should be restricted?
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    I said that actions which very clearly constitute bullying and harassment according to these universities' own policies should be treated as such. Targeted intimidation of Jewish students by chanting "Death to all Jews" to their face is not just "hate speech", it's direct bullying and harassment.

    Watch these three videos in which students describe how they have been directly threatened, and the university chose not to enforce its own rules. This is not about someone saying "I think Israel is wrong". This is about people telling Jews to their face they should be murdered.





     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    And there’s been plenty of times that LGBT students and others have been harassed or felt threatened because of conservative speakers and students. The whole concept of “Safe Spaces” was because students were feeling harassed and threatened.
     

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