Not really…. The Christian Right is trying to destroy the separation of church and state. We have plenty of human history to tell us what happens when these people get there way. They ain’t pounding the table to deal with homelessness and inequality as their lord and savior preached….. Why is it the same tactics were used by conservatives to justify Jim Crow?
Many churches deal with homelessness through volunteering at shelters and victims abuse programs. Inequality is a broad term and something I see upfront inside a liberal controlled state in California. Churches send missionaries, disaster relief support, and many other things partly in the name of inequality and uplifting them. We also have plenty of history against secularism when they impose ad hoc morality to get their way. That combined with the temptation of authoritarianism tends to be a recipe for disaster on the order of millions of casualties. I'm all up for holding the Christian Right to a higher standard. It's also fair to judge liberals with that same piercing lens and question values (i.e. freedom of speech, freedom of press, etc...) that they've compromised for the proclaimed Greater Good.
And I’m here in Austin, TX with a very Christian state government and homelessness keeps getting worse. The tactics used to address it are more “out of sight, out of mind”. Texas’s brand of Christianity is more about putting people in their proper place. My main point is the brand of Christianity is being morphed into “greed and hate”. These new Christians care more about putting people in their proper place and not lifting people up. Such as? I don’t really view Stalinism as secularism but I’m open to the argument. There’s always going to be some group that isn’t happy with society…. But we live in a country where church and state are separated which is a hindrance to some The issue is the Religious Right don’t want homosexuality, etc to be accepted or have the same rights. How is society supposed to do with that? How about just holding the Christian Right to the same standard as everyone else? The problem is they want to be elevated to have discretion over others. While liberals are capable of misery…. What we are actually talking about is equality and how the Christian Right doesn’t want equality.
The Christians I talk to aren't rabid Trump worshippers. Many are fine with accepting homosexuality among consenting adults. They don't walk in lockstep with the Christian Right but are lumped among them for their beliefs. I suppose the thought of being lumped among them can be triggering. We live in a constant state of hyper polarization where the culture conflicts has become a tug o war of sorts. I obviously don't agree with this framing. Claiming the "other side" will do far worse to justify your own ideological compromises trends towards a vicious cycle. I can hardly believe the angry frothing shouty personalities from either side as "victims". If they are, the more convincing types seem self-made.
Slavery and Jim Crow doesn’t happen as long as it did if moderate Christians didn’t speak up more loudly. Likewise, this current Christian Nationalism/Christian Right/etc trend is happening because they have the loudest voices. We have plenty of human history and modern events to show what happens when religious extremists get too much power. Right now it’s the Christian extremists. If other Christians don’t stand up to them then what am I supposed to think? Again this about equality….
The Christian Right can lie all they want but they don’t want homosexuality to be accepted much less given the same rights as heterosexuals.
You're free to disagree, but the abolitionist movement wouldn't have gained traction without religious groups speaking out against slavery. They spoke out enough to the point of splitting the country in half. I can't judge whether one group or people could have prevented tragedies "sooner or later". Might be an intellectually spurring but nothing to guide my judgmental anger toward or against. You're free to think and feel whatever you want. If you're a liberal trying to impose or persuade a higher moral standard based upon your beliefs, my point is to practice within the ideals you preach. It's never going to be perfect because we're all human. But it's a start towards consistency and it's helluva lot better to build upon in the long term.
This is why I ****ing hate corporate America. You have tools like joe rogan blabbering about hunter biden and his trolls @AroundTheWorld never wonder why rogan doesn't care when fellow athletes get screwed over by corporate greed. Omg hunter biden is corrupt. Who gives a ****. Ron DeSantis is corrupt without even stepping foot as POTUS. Rogan and all these right wing tools are disingenuous losers. Bootlicking for corporate is so pathetic. I hate big business
Which is my point…. It took the moderate and more progressive Christians to stand up for the slaves. If you don’t like how Christians are being viewed in 2023, greed and hate, then y’all need to speak up. Or we can just look and see what is happening right now and who is involved in what. But we have a system of rules and there’s a significant group of Christians that believes the Bible trumps the earthly system of rules…. You seem to dancing around the issue or not exactly understanding.
Not really. I understood your point. I entertained it while you weren't understanding my original point. I disagree with your justification of Libs using the "old silencing tactics of the Christian Right (boycotting, social shunning, censorship, expert gaslighting)" for the means of fighting against them. The consequence of upending old norms, despite how deeply flawed it were, is to find new norms to replace them with. Maybe it's symbols like flags, national identity (Americanness), ethnic identity (Han), or our mythical founding fathers. Science is a good one because it answers questions or has a workable model in areas that aren't politicized more than the areas that are politicized. The process is still messy, expensive and deeply misunderstood. But we use it in ways to make up for what was lost when America was more religious. Areas of habit, tradition, and practice. Ways to socialize, congregate and meet future relations. The gaps that secularism or science can not fill are prescribed as mental health issues or solvable with pharmaceuticals. I suspect Cons understand this more because their norms and rituals are being upended moreso than libs, who either had none or were running away from them in the first place. These social and cultural norms are still going to be formed without religion because that's what communities and societies organically do. Cults of personality pop up in mysterious ways when demagogues ruled the day. Not 100%? Use a meditation app! If you understand that....like take a deep breath and consider it for one second, then the values and ideals we choose and believe in should be consistent or upheld to the best of our abilities. Consider it leading by example. It's that consistency also that sustains our belief in the rule of law which is deteriorating regardless of either side holding power. Why would anyone want to believe a hypocrite who says one thing one day and flips when it suits their emotional needs? Because Trump is an existential threat to our families, the country and our future!?! Can that State of Emergency pass muster in 3-5 years later? There will be another Trump or Hillary to slay while we race to the bottom in the name of our cherished values. But Evangelicals chose Trump wah wah wahhh!! Maybe we are ****ed. I flatly disagree that listening, considering other ideas and steelmanning your ideals is a form of weakness. Especially in this place. Feel free to waste your time with how you please and I'll do the same with mine.
Probably because your original point is erroneous or not a well understood premise…. Why? Did ending slavery require a light touch? Ending Jim Crow? It would be nice if things went a lot a smoother but the status quo is hard to change. So then the hate and trying to end separation of church and state is justified because things are changing very fast? Conservatives by definition are the status quo traditionalist and the world is an ever changing place. Of course they understand this the best because they are the ones constantly fighting for things to not change and go against the natural laws of the universe. You are writing a lot but not saying much. Ok? But what does this mean in the real world? All I know is the bad Christians are at it again while the good Christians are remaining too silent. I don’t want a theocracy. The groomer issue is a made up issue meant to attack non heterosexuals. How does all your words deal with equality?
Good Governor. He is completely right. Calm and concise. "bigot bigot bigot fascist fascist fascist" - whatever - what he is saying is just common sense.
Christian nationalists are wolves in sheep clothing. His actions speak louder than his weirdly shrill voice,
I forgot to add about the irony of the non Christians living their life more closely to the teachings of Jesus…. and that’s the “alternative moral standard”….
Both things can be true - 49k people were in the stadium, and common sense Americans are tired of the excesses of woke nonsense, and are starting to fight back.
