One thing I really don't like is people taking their shooting stats and using them to be like "Ausar is clearly a hard worker and Amen is lazy". Like, c'mon, bro. That is massively jumping to conclusions. There are a myriad of reasons why somebody can be a better or worse shooter, and we have no evidence at all that there is any notable difference in their work ethics. My understanding is that, like many twins, they do basically do everything together and are pretty much focused on basketball nearly all day, every day. The much more likely explanations are, one, just differences in natural shooting touch (they're still different people even though they're identical twins), and two, differences in role on the court. Amen is the lead guard and the skills he's going to prioritize are naturally going to be more focused on ballhandling and making plays for others, while Ausar is being asked to play off the ball more often and take open shots/finish plays, which makes shooting a much more important skill relatively speaking. My overall point being: Why jump to negative conclusions about a guy's character when there are much simpler, more obvious explanations, unless you just have it out for Amen for some reason and are actively looking for reasons to be down on him?
Did Giddey spend 2 years sleeping in the gym working on his 3 pt shot? I don't think there were any stories of Giddey working on his 3 pt shot tirelessly for 2 years iirc he spent his 1 lone year playing in NBL which you know is one of the toughest leagues outside the NBA. He had to work his ass off just to get PT due to the high level of competition so while he did work on his shot he also had to work on all aspects of his game. Being a great passer but a non shooter effectively cancels out your passing. Your being a non shooter allows opponent to go 5 on 4 on defense cuz they can just ignore you. Having an extra help defender cancels out whatever bonus your playmaking gives your teammates. Why you think Steph Curry and Klay Thompson won so many rings together? It's cuz SPlash bros create so much space for everyone else. OTH Jordan Poole lost his splash mojo in the playoffs, now there wasn't so much space cuz teams were leaving Poole open thats why they lost in the playoffs.
Who cares what the reasons are? NBA is a make or miss league. DO people care Westbrook is a gym rat or do they just focus on him still sucking at 3s? Harden hits the strip club every night but if he's an MVP candidate nobody gives a F. My point is just everybody keeps saying Amen works like hell on his game but why his shot still sucks and mechanics all over the place? So if you are saying he isn't lazy then he's just hopeless right? So you want us to get a broke shot pg hell nah. Saying Amen is gonna be a pg he doesn't need to be able to shoot is just dumb sorry in the NBA even centers are being asked to shoot 3s nevermind the point guard. And Ausar can also play the point guard, he just gave it to Amen cuz Amen being the brokeshot can't play any other role. Like I said it's performance punish, because Ausar can do more suddenly shooting is required for him while since Amen is a brokeshot, suddenly its ok if he can't hit broad side of the barn wtf.
Well... you seem to care, since you keep bringing it up as the reason? His shot has shown signs of improvement, in both mechanics (recent videos show it's much smoother and more consistent, although more work remains to be done) and results (higher percentages in the OTE playoffs), you just refuse to acknowledge it because you've decided you think he's no good.
I don't care, I'm just asking why his shot still sucks if you claim he works on it so hard? There has to be a reason for everything, I want it to be lazy rather than hopeless cuz lazy maybe his attitude improves in the NBA like Jokic or Marc Gasol. OTH you are insisting he is some workaholic so maybe shooting will forever be a challenge for him. Why get a brokeshot forever pg then makes 0 sense. By the time he is a 30% shooter Ausar is already a 38% shooter. Ausar is also the better defender, takes defense seriously unlike Amen who ballwatches all the time. Again everybody claims Amen works hard but skills wise he is pretty bad. ALl he has is natural gifts like insane athleticism, 6'7 frame and his natural ability as a playmaker. But things that require hard work and discipline like shooting and defense he is still pretty bad but he works as hard as Ausar? Ok that's a huge red flag to me maybe not to you but to me it is. I'm not seeing results or massive improvement despite 2 years of prep so I wonder how will this translate in the NBA? He won't be the oldest and most talented player on the floor anymore he needs so much to work on. At least I know Ausar has the work ethic to pull it off I hear it from others and also see it on the court. Amen you do hear it but you don't see it on the court. If we're gonna use OTE playoffs as proof of shot improvement then all the more reason to bypass Amen and get Ausar cuz Ausar shot 38.5% from 3. Ausar's shooting went from 29.8 (almost Amen's % in playoffs already) to 38.5% lol pretty clear he is the one. Ausar won Finals MVP and outplayed his bro he is the one to get. Again everyone is performance punishing Ausar and saying he is a wing just cuz he learned to shoot. He can be a point guard just like Amen except he won't run the risk of being a brokeshot pg and he is already a committed and insane defender right now.
Amen also averaged nearly double the assists in the playoffs. The two guys simply have different strengths and weaknesses. 21, 5, and 5 for Ausar, 17, 9, and 7 for Amen in their playoff games. I don't think it's open-and-shut which of those stat lines is better. Shooting is not the only valuable skill in basketball! I would actually argue it's much easier to find a guy who can hit 38% of their threes than it is to find a guy who can average 9 assists per game. In any case, I'm not nearly as invested as you seem to be in which of the twins (if either) the Rockets end up picking. I think it's totally valid to believe Ausar is the better prospect, and if the Rockets end up picking him #4, I'll be a bit surprised, but I'll run with it and hope for the best. I just find some of the arguments you're using to support your case a little disingenuous, by ignoring evidence that does not support your case, or drawing certain broader conclusions that are not supported by the evidence. I think you're absolutely correct that Ausar is the better shooter and more likely to be a good shooter in the NBA, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the better prospect. That question is much more complicated than just looking at one facet of the twins' respective games.
Just observe the surroundings here, you would hear a lot about killer work ethic. Folks that keep on bringing that up, almost all NBA players have work ethic....... And folks that attempt to compare who has better work ethic ......like their life depends on it. At least I am very chill on this particular subject.
It's actually easier to average 9 assists as long as you get enough possessions you will average 9 assists. Nobody said Stephon Marbury is a gifted playmaker or passer but since he had the ball all the time he averaged 7-9 assists for most of his career. Amen had the ball most of the time and since he can't shoot he gonna rack up the assist since he has to pass the ball if he isn't driving it. You keep saying you aren't invested in the twins but you are clearly Amen's biggest booster on the board and reply to almost every post about Amen. Just look at your post history I'm sure its almost always about Amen. I mean if that's you not being invested at all I think that's pretty scary to be honest. As for me I'm def invested cuz the 4rth pick is pretty valuable there are a lot of good players in this draft I don't my fav team to pick an underperformer and then watch some other team pick the BPA again.
Most of my posts lately are about the draft because it's draft time. A lot of my posts since we landed #4 are about Amen because I think he's the most likely best player available there, but I've spent plenty of time talking about other possibilities as well. FYI I like Scoot Henderson more than Amen and would pay a lot in terms of assets to move up and get him if it were up to me.
You are still extremely invested in Amen since you post about him so much and defend him against everyone. To pretend you're some indifferent bystander is kinda weird tbh since nobody is judging you for it. Nobody is saying you should post out and defend Amen against the haters yet you still do it just look at your past post history and compare your posts about Amen vs any other prospect. I also am not invested in the twins per se, I prefer Walker, Hendrix and Wallace over any of the twins. But between Ausar and Amen I would def prefer we take Ausar cuz he doesn't look like bust material. Harden and a bunch of role players almost won against the most stacked team in NBA history, that's the power of 3 pointers. To specifically then take a brokeshot pg seems dumb AF to me. If AMen doesn't develop a serviceable 3 pt shot I don't care how athletic or gifted a passer he is he aint the best player available at #4 IMO.
I mean did Amen spend 2 years sleeping in the gym only working on his 3 pt shot? I have literally never heard this from anyone except from your mouth. I do hear he has good work ethic, but that could mean anything. Hell everyone and their mother is a gym rat these days according to their people. However you justify it, Giddey was a horrendous shooter up until maybe a few months ago, we will never know how much much time he spent in the NBL or his Rookie year working on his jump shot, nor do we really know that about Jalen Green, or Jabari or Westbrook. I think it's just too early to make any definitive statements about someone's jumpshot before they even enter the NBA. Because in most cases, NBA players improve their shooting as they spend more time in the NBA, especially now in the 3 point era
I'm not denying that shooting was/is their biggest concern. I confirmed it multiple times. I'll say it again. Shooting is their biggest question mark! The point I'm making is that they (particularly Amen) worked on other aspects of their game as well, and apparently that worked out well for their draft ranking status. And to nitpick, Amen had those same advantages last year (except length…because they're the same or Ausar is actually *slightly* longer). Yet based on his OTE play (because…what else?), he jumped in the rankings, even leapfrogging Ausar. Remember I just posted this to directly refute the point you made that they didn't improve their draft rankings: We can handwave that, each ramble incoherently about stuff no one else cares about, etc., but I'd like to stick to these focused points if possible. We don't have to jump from this to vague discussion points that go nowhere. Oh and to be clear, I'm still going to ramble incoherently for the rest of this post at the very least. I don't think I really disagree with much here. Yay! Well I might have quibbles with saying Ausar has a floor as being an average shooter, but eh, probably no point in debating that. OK, so I have to ask. Why did you post a video, then directly contradict a main conclusion presented in that video immediately? Talking about the "Ausar can be a PG" idea. I think I'm even closer to your conclusion that the one presented in the video as I do think Ausar could *eventually* become a decent PG with enough reps. For some reason, I'm thinking a Harden-esque development curve is possible, albeit probably unlikely, especially if he doesn't develop the rest of Harden's game. But yeah, not sure why the video helps some of your argument. I swear it's just saying a lot of the stuff I'm saying (e.g., Ausar *needs* a shot, Amen *probably* doesn't need it), but maybe I'm just focusing on the wrong parts. I guess he does have Ausar over Amen (if not drafting for fit), which differs from my assessment, though I think that's a fair take depending on what you want. Jabari is actually an interesting name to bring up as he has better mechanics (and college numbers) than either twin…by far. Yet he shot well below league average. Yeah I know you weren't saying any of this, but I just think it's an interesting point to make when trying to project a prospect's shooting. Of course, Jabari had to deal with playing for the Rockets, which negatively affects everyone's shot, and I am optimistic he'll become above average at least. Let's just ignore Amen for a second. I like Sengun, but I also have high expectations for him. In order for him to be that top 30-40 player in the league that I expect, he needs a 3pt shot. He doesn't have to shoot 40% or launch 9 of them a game. But he needs to be a 3pt threat. Playing exclusively in the paint (regardless of position) severely limits offensive flexibility and potential. For himself and the team. That all largely applies to Amen too. I do think you can run some pretty simple plays to exploit a defense that is sagging off or playing a zone (just run some 2-3 man actions with JG/Jabari/Sengun, fortunately basketball isn't solely one-on-one). But he'd go from a fringe all star guy (assuming he hits on everything else, which honestly is unlikely) to potential MVP if he could shoot. Or at least that's my opinion, though I assume most people acknowledge his high end ceiling. The arguments tend to revolve around how (un)likely he is to hit that ceiling, and where his floor might be. On the 3 point rate, not taking open 3s is significantly worse than missing 70-75% of the 3s you take. Hence the problem with Ben Simmons, and why guys like Westbrook are generally more effective (though Westbrook's issues elsewhere limit his overall effectiveness). Amen can be a 25% shooter, yet still go 6/8 from 3 in a game as long as he's taking those shots. Guys like Ben can never do that because of their complete unwillingness to shoot. And that makes it much easier on defenses. I don't think you said anything to the contrary, but I'm just emphasizing why I think it's important that both guys have a healthy 3 point rate regardless of their percentages.
I will say on the "why are you attacking/defending the Twins so much" point, this seems to be a popular topic on this forum and I think NBA draft circles in general. As I mention quite a bit, I follow Vecenie and Spinella quite a bit, and I think they too devote quite a bit to discussing these things (especially when discussing topics specifically). I think this largely comes about because a lot of folks are just putting out bad takes or completely misunderstanding the info/data that is out there. For a non-twin example, people here and elsewhere love to talk about how Scoot can't shoot. As catchy as that is to say, they usually just throw out that 27% number. I've had to correct this, Sam too, and yet you still get folks (...often times the *same* folks repeatedly) spreading the same bad takes. And foolish people like me will just continue trying to correct that misinformation. I'm actually used to being more of a lurker in the GARM. I've done that for the majority of the 20+ years I've been here and...yikes I'm old. Anyway, this draft cycle is very interesting, and hopefully people are able to process everything about it in order to really appreciate it. There is a lot of fun stuff to think about.
I know they will, that's why i've made sure to say that's just my opinion. One thing is you took the KJ.McDaniels comparison too literally. That was more of a joke than anything else as the only way they are similar is that they are both athletic, but at the same time, it fit my opinion of great athletes that are bad nba players. I'm not sold at all on the Thompson twins and it's because the competition they're facing is bad. Trash almost.
did this really happen? Why would they mess with his mechanics he had one of the purest shots in his class
I don't remember hearing this either, but even if it's true, I don't know why we would think the coaching would be the same under Udoka as it was under Silas.
Filling up the box score isn't necessarily playing winning basketball. Someone posted a highlight video yesterday of Amen - the odd thing about it was his team was always behind thru the entire video which included several games spanning both seasons in OTE. I really thought that odd .... maybe it was a coincidence or maybe they just aren't what they have been billed as.
I know they will, that's why i've made sure to say that's just my opinion. One thing is you took the KJ.McDaniels comparison too literally. That was more of a joke than anything else as the only way they are similar is that they are both athletic, but at the same time, it fit my opinion of great athletes that are bad nba players. I'm not sold at all on the Thompson twins and it's because the competition they're facing is bad. Trash almost. Yeah, but if the Rockets draft one of them, i want to be proven wrong 'cause i obviously want the Rockets to succeed.
