What is your current Rockets Top 5 Draft Big board?

Yes, that's my entire point, bro. Comparing one player's G-League numbers who joins straight out of high school and is looking to get drafted is a completely different scenario to a drafted player with an entire NBA rookie season under his belt. Scoot is just trying to showcase his game to maximize his draft stock; he didn't get nearly the minutes KPJ did AND he's a full year younger. It's apples and oranges.

And? The guy was still awful that season. And his numbers his next year in Houston were also awful. I'd argue that this was really his first solid season statistically as an NBA player. (And I'm genuinely a fan of the guy and kinder than most CF posters.)

Huh? That's not remotely the point I was making. My point is it's not fair to compare a kid out of high school playing in the G-League before he's drafted next to an NBA player with an entire rookie season under his belt playing for the G-League. You want to look at Nix's G-League stats while we're at it?

All of these are just excuses for the fact that KPJ is just not an NBA level starting PG. He's just not, and we've had three years now in Houston for him to try and prove it. Even in those stats you post above, it's clear by the assist-turnover ratio that he's not an efficient playmaker. And anyone who's watched him as a Rocket knows this to be true. The guy's a solid shot creator and a legit offensive talent, but he's just not a starting NBA point guard on a good basketball team, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find many who'd say otherwise.

You're trying to argue that he's a better long-term option at the position over one of the best point guard prospects of the past decade who is athletically miles ahead of him and has been described by most scouts as someone who'd be a No. 1 overall pick in most draft classes. It's night and day difference. Take off the homer glasses for a second and try to look at it from an outsider's perspective.

 

I'm just going off the numbers.

Scoot was definitely a main focus (highest usage, 2nd highest FGA, etc.), but I'm saying they had other guys also putting up similar usage/FGAs/etc. KPJ, in comparison, seemed to have a much higher usage/FGA/etc than *most* of his teammates, especially if you account for guys that didn't play a ton of games (if using per game numbers).

And I'm not even necessarily trying to prove some crazy point with these numbers. Like I don't think it is crazy to say the Rockets wanted to put a lot of focus on KPJ when he was with RGV (thus more usage/FGAs/etc.), and he did a great job in that stretch. I also don't think it is crazy to say the Ignite were more focused on developing a number of guys, not just Scoot (though Scoot may have been the most important). Perhaps Scoot could/should have done better, but I'm not sure how much of a focus that was for the team (obviously guys like Miller, Cissoko, and 32 year old G League Legend John Jenkins have their own interests).

As for what you saw when you watched the games, that's completely your opinion, and not really much to debate there.

If we're talking about Scoot's 3pt shooting, I'd point out the Tankathon projects him as a ~34% shooter (well guess he's around 32.4% in the G League, so go from there). That seems fine to me.

 

We judge talent differently. You have your opinion and I'll have mine.

I saw Heines Ward throw a few passes as a receiver on an end arounds....
doesn't mean he would seamlessly transition to quarterback easily in the
NFL.

Why would I want a 6'2" PG when the NBA is going to position-less
basketball where everyone is a distributor.....go with the 6'7" Amen
who does the same sh#t. Scores....passes...needs to work on his shot.
As the experts will tell you, you can't teach height!

Scoot Henderson was a 118 DRtg.

 

Some people want to act like KPj was a starter his rookie season.
No, he started only 3 games and averaged 23 minutes per game
on the season.

Garland, Sexton, Osman, Nance jr, Drummond, Tristan were not exactly
the best 3-point shooters providing spacing on that Cavs team.

People want to talk about Scoot needing teammates surrounding him.....
just add 3-point shooters around KPj and see what happens. He has yet
to have that in his career yet.

 

I'm curious, though. What characteristics are you using to judge KPJ as a superior long-term point guard prospect over Scoot? Aside from the fact that he's 2-3 inches taller (identical wingspans) and the better shooter, I'm at a loss.

You continue to bring this up. But it's a moot point. I don't care if a player has trained to be a point guard most of his life or is learning the position on the fly; at the end of the day, I just want a great point guard. And KPJ has had plenty of time to prove whether they can be that guy. He holds the ball too long, he turns it over too much, he's not the most skilled passer and he doesn't possess a high basketball IQ. Again, I'm a fan of the guy in a specific role, but that roleisn't starting PG.

Because he has a 6'9" wingspan with elite athleticism? Also, he's essentially the same height as the top point guards in the NBA today (Curry, Morant, Fox, Lillard, Young). With his length and athleticism, his height shouldn't be an issue; he should have no problem guarding most 1s and 2s and should hold his own against some SFs as well. He's not an elite defensive prospect by any means, but KPJ is no elite defender either.

Defensive rating is not a good barometer to judge a player's defensive potential, especially when taken from such a small sample size in a weird environment like the G-League. The tools are there; that's what matters.

 

Why in God/Buddha/Allah/Hakeem's name would you pick anyone over Wemby? Even if you want Scoot you draft Wemby then trade down.

 

I'm not going to respond to every post you write. I refuse to do your chase
the tail stuff I'm familiar with you doing.....just to end up right where we started.

1) Thread Title is "Rockets" top 5 Big Board
I'm a believer Harden is coming back this summer. He's my point guard!!
I'm not drafting a guy at number 2 or 3 to back up Harden.

Now the beauty is, we had Harden play SF (along with Eric Gordon, McLemore)
in those final years with D'Antoni. KPj started off as SF with the Cavs.
Now both can be interchangeable at the 1, 2, and 3. Perfect for that share
the ball concept that Ime Udoka forced his young trio of Smart, Brown, and
Tatum to buy in to.

So I've never been a fan of Best Player Available and absolutely being
locked in to that lazy stupid thinking. I hated the Sixers drafting
Center after Center from Nerlens, Embiid, Ben Simmons, Okafor,
R Holmes, while also having stiffs like Tobias Harris and Amir Johnson.

I'm firm and bend while being open minded....if the Thread read:
Detroit Top 5 Big Board; im not placing Scoot Henderson in the
Top 5 with them either. Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey, Killian
Hayes don't need another chef messing up the soup. They will
all get their feathers ruffled and get pissed off and start demanding
a trade like Okafor and Nerlens Noel did with the Sixers.

I have Scoot Henderson as #7, because both KPj and Josh Christopher
put up better performances while in the G-League. Even TyTy played
well in the G-League as well this past season. And then struggled
with the big league ball club.

I will bring in Scoot to go with Harden, KPj, Jalen Green,
TyTy all competing to see how far along they are as PG's.
I will play that BPA game at the #7 pick. Rockets are in win
now mode.....and I don't have the first two seasons of
Harden's return training up a PG like we've done with KPj.

Nothing of Scoots game tells me he is ahead of KPj, TyTy,
Josh Christopher, Suggs, Cade Cunningham, Fultz, Cole Anthony,
Davion Mitchell, or Josh Giddy, etc.

2) I'm a big believer in for every action there is a reaction.
The action of lack of 3-point shooting allowed the opposition
to clog the paint. If you ever played PG.....we would rather
beat our guy and contend with one second tier defenders.....
not 3 or 4 others with a foot in the paint every F'in play.

Player...3P%
Tate........28% on 1.5 attempts
Kenyon...32% on 2.6 attempts
Sengun...33% on 0.8 attempts
Jabari.....31% on 4.9 attempts
Nix..........29% on 2.5 attempts
TyTy.......24% on 2.6 attempts
Garuba...41% on (0.8 attempts scares no team)

Ime Udoka knows basketball and knows SPACING is of
utmost importance of a team wants offensive efficiency.
Wemby has his skill sets; but this is why is have Brandon
Miller #2....Miller plus Harden will help open things up.
Bringing greater efficiency. Yes, even KPj will shine....
much to the chagrin of his haters. Just like Marcus
Smart was not allowed to be a dribble the air out
of the ball player with Ime.....nor will KPj or Harden.

It will all work out......Yule See.

 

I'm not going to respond to every post you write. I refuse to do your chase
the tail stuff I'm familiar with you doing.....just to end up right where we started.

1) Thread Title is "Rockets" top 5 Big Board
I'm a believer Harden is coming back this summer. He's my point guard!!
I'm not drafting a guy at number 2 or 3 to back up Harden.

Now the beauty is, we had Harden play SF (along with Eric Gordon, McLemore)
in those final years with D'Antoni. KPj started off as SF with the Cavs.
Now both can be interchangeable at the 1, 2, and 3. Perfect for that share
the ball concept that Ime Udoka forced his young trio of Smart, Brown, and
Tatum to buy in to.

So I've never been a fan of Best Player Available and absolutely being
locked in to that lazy stupid thinking. I hated the Sixers drafting
Center after Center from Nerlens, Embiid, Ben Simmons, Okafor,
R Holmes, while also having stiffs like Tobias Harris and Amir Johnson.

I'm firm and bend while being open minded....if the Thread read:
Detroit Top 5 Big Board; im not placing Scoot Henderson in the
Top 5 with them either. Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey, Killian
Hayes don't need another chef messing up the soup. They will
all get their feathers ruffled and get pissed off and start demanding
a trade like Okafor and Nerlens Noel did with the Sixers.

I have Scoot Henderson as #7, because both KPj and Josh Christopher
put up better performances while in the G-League. Even TyTy played
well in the G-League as well this past season. And then struggled
with the big league ball club.

I will bring in Scoot to go with Harden, KPj, Jalen Green,
TyTy all competing to see how far along they are as PG's.
I will play that BPA game at the #7 pick. Rockets are in win
now mode.....and I don't have the first two seasons of
Harden's return training up a PG like we've done with KPj.

Nothing of Scoots game tells me he is ahead of KPj, TyTy,
Josh Christopher, Suggs, Cade Cunningham, Fultz, Cole Anthony,
Davion Mitchell, or Josh Giddy, etc.

2) I'm a big believer in for every action there is a reaction.
The action of lack of 3-point shooting allowed the opposition
to clog the paint. If you ever played PG.....we would rather
beat our guy and contend with one second tier defenders.....
not 3 or 4 others with a foot in the paint every F'in play.

Player...3P%
Tate........28% on 1.5 attempts
Kenyon...32% on 2.6 attempts
Sengun...33% on 0.8 attempts
Jabari.....31% on 4.9 attempts
Nix..........29% on 2.5 attempts
TyTy.......24% on 2.6 attempts
Garuba...41% on (0.8 attempts scares no team)

Ime Udoka knows basketball and knows SPACING is of
utmost importance of a team wants offensive efficiency.
Wemby has his skill sets; but this is why is have Brandon
Miller #2....Miller plus Harden will help open things up.
Bringing greater efficiency. Yes, even KPj will shine....
much to the chagrin of his haters. Just like Marcus
Smart was not allowed to be a dribble the air out
of the ball player with Ime.....nor will KPj or Harden.

It will all work out......Yule See.

P.S. Rockets in 22/23 were dead last in 3-pt % at 32.7%
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-pct

days of Westbrook and Rondo as PG's driving but unable to shoot are numbered.

 

Tale of the Tape: G league TyTy vs Scoot Henderson 22/23

Player....gms...mins..pts...FG%....3P%....rebs...Ast....TOV
Scoot.......19......30.7...16.5...42.9.....27.5.....5.3.....6.8......3.4
TyTy..........8.......38.4....26.6...40.5....25.7.....6.9......7.6.....3.5



Player.....stl...ORtg....DRtg.....Ast / TO......Ast Ratio
Scoot......1.1....115.9......118.4.........1.98...............25.7
TyTy........1.5....116.0......115.6.........2.18...............21.2



Player.....eFG%.....TS%......TO Ratio.......PiTP
Scoot.........45.5.......53.7.............12.8...........7.4
TyTy...........45.7.......56.3...............9.7..........12.3

I'm not a fan of TyTy......but I'll give him time to develop.

Not all that is flashy is gold. All dunks doesn't impress me much.

 

And yet you have at this point. And I'm not sure what you mean by "chase the tail stuff." You had a bold take, and I called you out on it, and I've asked you some fairly straightforward questions that you've continued to dodge as you make excuses for KPJ. I have no agenda here, nor am I trying to trick you in any way. But I'm a firm believer that if you're going to have a bold take, you ought to be able to back it up, and I don't think you have. If you don't care to continue the discussion after this, that's fine.

You just keep moving the goalposts while avoiding my fairly direct questions. I asked what characteristics you based your assessment of KPJ as the superior long-term PG prospect and your response is "I don't want either guy to be the PG anyway. We're bringing back Harden!" Really? Why spend multiple posts arguing and defending KPJ as a point guard and making excuses if you don't even think he's the team's future at the position?

Again.... they played in the G-League at an older age than Scoot and in completely different circumstances; you're not getting anywhere with me using that same logic over and over again. And it's a bit hypocritical to me that you rip on Scoot's G-League stats, but you seem to have no issue with Amen Thompson, who put up similar (arguably worse) numbers against inferior competition, yet you have him in your top 5.

If the Rockets are truly in win-now mode, they shouldn't be. This team is still absurdly young and has a ton of growing to do. And if their reasoning for not taking Scoot at 2 is "we don't need him because James is coming back," that's awful logic on Stone's part, and he should be fired. With a rebuilding team, you maximize your young assets and build around them; you don't bring in past-their-prime stars at the tail end of their career and build around them instead.

And, again, yet you have Amen Thompson higher despite his even far worse 3-point shooting. Your list doesn't match the logic you're using to justify it it all. But at this point, it's clear you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

Yes we agree that we disagree.

All I know is Scoot Henderson during that Wemby matchup went up against 5'10" Tremont Waters.

And didn't dominate.....please.

I've seen Isaiah Hartenstein get about 23 points per game in the G-league. And to my dismay, something like 2 points in live action with the Rockets. TyTy got 50 points in a G-league game......and average 4 points in the NBA.

You can be sold on Henderson.....I'm not

 

The Rockets should simply trade TyTy to whomever drafts Henderson...

Henderson is not supposed to be an elite prospect because of his G league stats, i know it will never be repeated enough for some but, it's true.

 

https://theathletic.com/4520965/2023/05/16/nba-draft-2023-hollinger-top-20-prospects/

Summary:

1. Vic
2. Scoot
3. Whitmore (likes his defense even tho he can't pass
4. Miller (not athletic enough, ceiling is a second fiddle, too old)
5. Anthony black
6,7 Thompsons
8 Lively
9. Hendricks
10. Bufkin
11. Dick
12. Cougars legend Jarace Walker (hates his offense)

 

Many feel that way....best player available.

Philly did the "Process" of supposedly BPA. Took 7 years and
now looking for ANOTHER rebuild. Freaking MVP on the team.

I criticized Kenyon Martin draft.....yes he is athletic, yes he can jump to
the moon.....but I'm still waiting on him to develop a jump shot.

Tate is crafty, solid frame, but I'm still waiting on Tate to develop a jump
shot.

Sengun is a solid post up player.....but until he develops a jump shot,
teams are going to treat him just like the Warriors did to Sabonis....
sitting back in the paint and guarding him for the drive. Cutting
down on the angle of his passes.

From watching Warriors vs Kings.....Sabonis was averaging
7.3 assists per game in the regular season then averaged 4.7
by way of this tactic.

You can't guarantee me Scoot will develop a shot....same
as you can't guarantee me Ben Simmons, Westbrook, Rondo,
MCW, etc can develop a shot.

Jalen Green can leap with the best of them and is fast enough
to get to the rim on anybody.....but without 3-point shooters,
you are looking for second and third tier defenders meeting him at
the rim due to a packed paint....Scoot will see the same issue.
Trying to get to the rim against a packed paint.....like playing
basketball in an elevator.

 

Hey bro, I just heard that Anthony Black had a 39 inch vertical from my brother. I haven't validated this, but that's some athleticism that would make me reallllllly reconsider him in the top 5 to go along with his playmaking and size! Thought of you when I heard it.

 

1. Victor Wembanyama
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson
5. Cam Whitmore

 

Yeah his leaping numbers seem pretty good:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=A&sort=PLAYER_NAME

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=A&sort=PLAYER_NAME
His measurement slightly disappointed me. Thought he had like a 6'10+ wingspan (maybe 7'). I guess with his better than expect leaping ability, they offset some. Plus the results speak for themselves on the court.

Top 5 still seems like a reach (none of these combine numbers should radically change things given the amount of data we already have), but yeah he should be pretty good IMO. Especially since I think he has good BBIQ and I think works really hard.

 

THIS WILL CHANGE.

I have done basically zero research into the prospects this year. But given that, here's my top 5 as of 5/16/23 at 10:27am CST.

1. Wemby
2. Jarace
3. Amen
4. Scoot
5. Miller

::Edit::
Just swapped Scoot and Miller

 

1.Wemby,
2. Henderson
3. Cam, best perimeter defender. 6'7 with a 7'3 wingspan? And has a 5 year vet's body? Sign me up..
4.Amen
5. Hendricks
6. Miller
7.Gradey Dick on his instagram content alone.



And yes, I expect no.2-7 to struggle like crazy and for y'all to want to throw him over a bridge. It's a Rockets tradition.