1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

2023 Season Astros General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snake Diggit, Apr 10, 2023.

  1. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    14,782
    Likes Received:
    24,018
    Here’s the last year vs this years breakdown for the pitchers:

    Valdez 4.4 : 4.7
    Verlander/Brown 6.1 : 3.1
    Urquidy 1.1 : 0.9
    Garcia/Bielak 2.1 : 0.8
    Javier 3.4 : 3.1
    Montero 1.5 : 0.7
    Maton -0.1 : 0.5
    Neris 1.6 : 0.6
    Abreu 1.4 : 1.1
    Odorizzi/France 1.2 : 0.7
    Stanek 0.9 : 0.1
    Pressly 1.4 : 1.3
    McCullers 0.8 : 1.1

    Not much to take away from this. I’m surprised they project to fall 7+ wins short of last year. Almost half of that is replacing a cy young guy with a (really good) rookie, but also I just think reliever war projections are wonky, although I do think Stanek, Montero, and Neris have not been as good as they were last season without any other RP stepping up; the bar was really high for all the returning guys. Obviously if France stays as effective as he’s been then he will blow his projection away.

    For now I would like to see an elite RP added to replace the Martinez/etc and let them use Montero and Stanek in lower leverage. Aroldis Chapman would be my target but there’s tons of others available.
     
    #981 Snake Diggit, May 13, 2023
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  2. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,527
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    This 100%.

    There's been a ton of blame-shifting this season. Eg. It's Dusty's fault. It's Bagwell's fault.

    The two primary culprits in the Astros record this season are under-performance and injury. Pretty much every national media narrative I've seen is that the Astros can and will bounce back. That remains to be seen, but no one in the broader media is blaming Dusty or the FO for the team's performance.
     
    13 in 33 and rockbox like this.
  3. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    21,324
    Likes Received:
    34,259
    I don't know what all went into the Abreu signing, but if Bagwell was the primary driver (not the nerds) and Abreu flames out that is a huge f**k up. It's hard to overstate how reprehensible he has been this season. We're likely in first place if we even got league average production from him. A lot of season for this to possibly still work out, but through 38 games no single hitter has cost his team more on the field than he has given where he hits and how much he earns.

    While I think Dusty is hindering Diaz's development by refusing to give him at least semi-regular action, it hasn't cost us anything thus far. Otherwise there's nothing Dusty has done that is worth complaining about. The hitters we have simply aren't very good or are slumping, not much he can do about that.
     
  4. xcrunner51

    xcrunner51 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,527
    Likes Received:
    2,481
    The base problem is that Abreu is massively under-performing. To a level that no one could have predicted.

    Does Bagwell take some ownership of Abreu's under-performance given his short-lived pseudo-GM tenure? Yes.

    However IMHO, it's revisionist history to say that people were anything but thrilled when the Astros signed Abreu (beyond the pricetag). We expected at minimum an above average/solid starter if not hoped for all-start appearance or two. He was a premier free agent, something Houston hasn't always had success in signing. And the other options were Rizzo, Josh Bell and a hodgepodge of lesser options like Mancini. I preferred Rizzo but he was never going to sign anywhere other than with the Yanks. Bell and every other option has been 'meh' or worse.

    I was fairly happy we came out of the off-season with a new stud 1B, resigned setup man, and didn't pay verlander $40m+. It sucks the Stros overpaid a bit on both Abreu and Montero. It sucks even more that Abreu is playing awfully and Montero hasn't been good. But I don't think Bagwell could have magically foreseen most of that.
     
  5. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    14,314
    Likes Received:
    28,366
    I remember all the jackholes complaining that Crane wasn’t spending more money upfront at the beginning of the season. This is why you slow play things a bit. You never know what will be needed to contend as the season goes on.

    The Astros were good enough to ride things out a bit to see what was needed in season. One of these days maybe people will trust the org that has brought us two chips.

    Altuve coming back will extend the lineup and give us more answers. As of now it’s looking like we might need a bat and an arm or two. Guess we will see though…
     
    MadMax, IBTL and Major like this.
  6. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    Except the nerds loved this signing too. The "Astros sign Jose Abreu" thread is filled with statistical data about how great Abreu was last year and how his year was a fluke, etc.

    Just a few examples:





     
    Justin Thomas and Buck Turgidson like this.
  7. BlindHog

    BlindHog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,187
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    The pitch clock is screwing with some hitters more than others. It requires quicker thinking. Most have no problem with that at all. For those who have lost some reaction time or perhaps were on the edge to start with it can seem insurmountable. It can increase the pressure they feel. Some will adapt and some never will.
     
  8. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,675
    Likes Received:
    12,337
    Given how hard he hit the ball during spring training, I definitely don't think it's age unless he's playing injured. I think he's having a hard time getting his old swing back after making the change last year. I think he will figure it out by the halfway point .
     
    Wulaw Horn and Buck Turgidson like this.
  9. Screaming Fist

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,904
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    If the nerds in the Astros FO are Michael Schwab and Ben Dubose tier then this org is truly and completely ****ed.
     
    swoosh1014 and InTheGroove like this.
  10. The Real Shady

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    3,972
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 1999
    Messages:
    24,460
    Likes Received:
    12,710
    I had that same reaction when I tried cauliflower crust pizza.
     
    IBTL and mikol13 like this.
  12. J.R.

    J.R. Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    113,921
    Likes Received:
    175,298
  13. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,234
    Likes Received:
    102,259
    They are not.

    Yet GM Crane, with input from both sides, still made that signing (and the others)

    If you think that this organization is "truly and completely ****ed" at this point and after one offseason...well, nothing anyone can say can help you change your mind.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,234
    Likes Received:
    102,259
    You were excited about cauliflower pizza?

    I guess somebody has to be first.
     
  15. InTheGroove

    InTheGroove Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2022
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    756
    ... here lies a city on fire ...
     
  16. HeyBudLetsParty

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,317
    Likes Received:
    2,513
    If Gilbert is still tearing it up post trade deadline and Brantley isn’t back, they for sure are calling him up right? I mean, imagine having Julks, Meyers playing everyday when you got a potential upgrade waiting in the wings.
     
    everyday eddie likes this.
  17. InTheGroove

    InTheGroove Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2022
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    756
    Here's the problem... we're gonna be sellers and not buyers at the deadline--
    ...all because humans play baseball (NOT computers)...
    Keep your analysis / commentary / choices on what to say IN. THE. BOOTH.
    Give our city a clue: Mr. Brown, in the office, with sum swingin' nuts & a pen...

    There are 3-4 A̶S̶S̶E̶S̶... assets that need to be unloaded yesterday.
     
  18. The Beard

    The Beard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    7,113
    Using Dubon as a leadoff hitter makes zero sense

    Yes, he has been MUCH better than last year, but his .315 OBP is awful for a leadoff man, and he has zero patience. He goes up there hacking at every pitch. If he was batting 7th that’s ok, but he is literally the anti-leadoff guy
     
    everyday eddie likes this.
  19. InTheGroove

    InTheGroove Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2022
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    756
    TBH & relatively speaking... he's been just as good as most of these pros... (isn't Dubon hitting better than Bregman?)
    ...your correct statement would be: "using Jose Abreu as an everyday guy who doesn't want to be an Astro - has nothing / wants nothing to do with HTX & needs to be sent to AAA on assignment to get right" and having Dusty Baker still "manage" this team makes zero sense.
     
  20. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    100,234
    Likes Received:
    102,259
    Who is this magical "leadoff man" who is being underutilized?

    Tucker then Yordan, with Tucker behind him, and Yordan behind Tucker, and Yordan....?
     
    raining threes and Wulaw Horn like this.

Share This Page