Most Comprehensive Jalen Sucks Thread

You're either lying or merely hilariously ignorant.

At 21 Kobe was significantly better defensively than Jalen is offensively.... he had almost twice as many defensive win shares alone that single season than Jalen has total win shares for his career.... and again we're talking about a compilation metric so it's largely influenced by playing time.

The difference in quality is THAT extreme.

 

All about context.
Jalen green has played poorly through certain stretch, but it's not b/c he simply sucks. A player who sucks can't put up 30,40 pts games with stellar stats.

Anti green folks tend to ignore that:
-He has a sht coach in silas, man coach a teamto bottom 3, 3 years in a row.
-He has no pg, we are forcing KPJ to play a position which he clearly blows at it leading to one of the shttiest offense in the league
-We are tanking, the team is intentionally letting kpj and letting silas b sht at their job b/c this gives us the best chance of winning the Wemby sweepstake.

We drafted Green to b our primary scorer, and he has been doing quite a stellar job with the sht conditions he been given with. Could he b better? sure he can, with a proper pg like harden and our brand new coach ime his efficiency should go up.

No one on our team could match jalen green in a scoring match and he's only 21.

A player who sucks wouldn't b on this type of list.

He may not hit your oh so high expectation which has yet to b seen with a proper coach and real pg, but he obviously doesn't suck at what we drafted him to do which is to score.

 

None of the shooting guards you named are that great of passers, just because they average 1 assist more than Jalen doesn't make them "elite" or "good passers".

The shooting guards that Jalen is always compared to, Beal and Booker all hovered in that 3 assists per game category for the few years. Only when their scoring really took off, their assists goes up because teams start to commit more defenders to them opening up team mates.

The same goes for rebounding, most of these guards you listed are not great rebounders by any means. Those that get the numbers are typically taller and stronger when they were drafted. Jalen is at a natural disadvantage because of how skinny he is. Again most guards up their rebounding numbers naturally just from filling out their frame after 3-4 years.

I guess where you disagree with most people is that you think passing, defending, rebounding, blocks weigh the same as scoring for a shooting guard. I will say that is false because elite scoring should be weighed a lot more than the rest. Ant or Beal aren't all stars because of their 4 assists per game, their scoring always comes first.

I think Jalen Green's future depends 90% on if he can improve his scoring efficiency and shot selection. If he continued to shoot at 54% TS next year, it doesn't even matter if he upped his assists, rebounding and become a slightly better defender, he would be closer to bust territory.

There's a reason why people can ignore the terrible offensive game and slightly subpar rebounding game of Mobley, because he was drafted to be a elite defender, and as a big man that is more important than everything else.

Green is drafted to be a elite scorer, and he's not doing that. The rest are not that important in the grand theme of things

 

Then the question of all those draft gurus would be.

Is the elite defensive big man a dime in a dozen or the elite scorer who does not much else a dime in a dozen......

In a nutshell, who is the rarest player archetype? Subjective to one's needs.

 

He definitely isn't one of the "worst defenders". His on ball defense is above average. He's lost off ball and fighting through screens. Those are his weaknesses.

If you wanted a all around elite player at 19-21 you should have followed the Rockets during Lebron when he was 18 and prayed to the gods that the universe was altered to where the Rockets drafted number 1 that year Lebron was eligible.

That's how you get a 19 year old to be a good scorer, playmaker and defense at 19.


But to say a 19-21 year old is "only good at scoring" when the dude is all time in stuff loke being top 10 in 30 pt games before turning 22 which means hell probably be top 5 in NBA history by the time he turns 22. And look at the list of players in the top 10 all time in the list. Zero flukes. The worst player on the list in that top ten is Trae Young and Ant. The rest are first ballot hall of famers.

Your rhetoric is basically throwing the baby out of the bath water. You are completely ignoring what is special about him.

For a player this young you ask questions like "why is he so special at scoring". Because those answers can explain what he can be elite at later when he develops fully. Right now the biggest reason Green is ahead of his age group in scoring is because of a specific strait and that is dribble seperation. He's already elite on this specific trait.

I remember you made a comment earlier here in that you want Green to be a primarily off ball catch and shoot type player which shows how misplaced you are in analyzing what Green is good at. Should Green next season with a more competent system have more variety in off ball actions to get easier buckets sprinkled into his shot diet? Absolutely. But you would be solly not to have a offense center around his ability to collapse defenses with his dribble seperation. That ability to collapse defenses from creating seperation off the dribble and beating perimeter defenses results in open teammates being created. He is no where close to where he needs to be in finding the open teammates he generates through his dribble seperation but it's definitely something any rational person would expect an improvement on given his age. He will over time find those open teammates he constantly ALREADY generates. Do you even watch the games? Yes Green misses a lot of teammates especially at the corner three spot when he beats perimeter defenses off the dribble and forces a tough attempt in traffic in the paint. But that is where he should improve. But having that baseline talent of easily shaking defenders off off the dribble is a very important and unique skillset that a offense can be built around.

 

I don't think either one is dime a dozen to be honest. It's hard to find scorer that can put up 20+ PPG on 60% TS+, it's also equally hard to find a center that can defend 5 positions.

I mean we literally drafted Jalen and Jabari is back to back drafts hoping they would become an elite scorer and a elite switchable big on defense.

 

What age did Lou Williams do that?

You understand what experience players pick up when they play more seasons? They learn how to get to their spots. They learn how to navigate screens. They learn their hot zones. They learn defensive tendencies. All things that allow a player to increase their ability to score. When Lou Williams joined the NBA he didn't have that experience. When you first enter the league of toy score a lot it's because you are going off of shear natural talent rather than experience and learning tendencies. Lou Williams wasn't capable of doing what Green does at his age because he didn't have that elite ability to blow by defenders so easily. Green scores now through shear natural talent. Eventually he'll score with that shear natural talent combined with experience of knowing his zones, knowing individual defensive tendencies, knowing his teammates tendencies, knowing how to navigate screens better etc.

 

I like Jalen, that's just me. BUT I have said time and time again that he does not give effort on the defensive end and I think a lot of what him, as well as Sengun were not pressed.....AND THAT'S COACHING.

I'm really looking forward to see what type of an effect Udoka has on him and Sengun. Since Jalen has been a Rocket, I have never seen him get on the floor/dive for a loose ball. Even Harden has done that before!

To me, that has to be a requirement from my best players, because that demeanor passes throughout the team. If my best player is giving that type of effort, why can't ALL of my players do it?

 

So is Devin Booker destined to be Lou Williams 2.0? Are you trolling?

You'll see that Devin Booker was rated a "below average" on defense according to Synergy def stats in his first two seasons and Green was rated as "average". The reason is because of his on ball defense being above average bir being below average everywhere else. Booker was just below average at every aspect including on ball defense his first two years. Both players had near identical ppg, efficiency and assist numbers their first two years.

Does that mean that Booker's fate is Lou Williams?

 

You should read my post, I didn't say Green is good at scoring the ball either lol

You have a hard time understanding defense is not the other half of basketball for a shooting guard. For a scorer you need elite scoring, and passable level of defense, assists and rebounding.

 

Ya we did... I'm 99% confident Green will be that and 80% confident Bari will be that.


Oh you thought they would be that at 19? My bad.

Then that just makes you stupid if you thought that would be the case.

 

All this thread did was remind me of Lou’s time in Houston and I remember how money he was in his first game when we traded for him.

 

@apollo33 how many of these players on this list were doing it at above league average efficiency at this respective stage?

Keep in mind Green eol most likely be top 5 by when he reaches 22.

 

OR I shouldn't worry about bad things when they haven't happened yet and history shows there's no reason I should.

Seems like you should be explaining how Kobe Bryant became an excellent defender. Since you like extreme opinions, then you should address the inverse extreme. I guess you would have traded him for Vlade huh? Hahaha

 

This dude is probably so unknowledgeable he's probably going to be like "yOu mEaN tHe SaMe KoBe wHo wAs aN aLl-sTaR hIs sEcOnD sEaSoN?!"

 

Being intrinsic is what he lacks most. His logo on his shoulder thought he was just going to take the league over. That didn’t work so here we are. He is a kid that thinks like a kid. Hopefully coaching helps. I hear of him taking time off (nothing wrong with that but being the best isn’t happening at beach). I didn’t see anything new from one year to the next (did anyone else?) just more of the same, just not improving so here we are.

I can’t help but think his career and slam dunk contest look the same.