Just to piggyback... 3 years of all nba defense guards fouls per 36: 2022-23 Caruso: 3.6 Holiday: 1.9 White: 2.7 Brooks: 3.9 2021-22 Smart: 3.2 Thybulle: 3.4 Holiday: 2.2 2020-21 Holiday: 1.7 Simmons: 3.3 Thybulle: 3.5 Holiday is a bit of a freak on the low foul count. I don't think it tells everything but it's reasonable a lack of fouls is either someone not engaged or is someone so elite at their skills they are but avoid fouling still. Jalen running up a figure roughly half the foul rate of some of them...
He looked like a different player when he a Sengun were playing pick and roll. His passing in that situation was much better than KPJ’s. If he can improve his consistency from 3 and play decent defense he will be a star in the league. All the stats and the eye test already have him at elite at getting to the rim and getting fouled.
Is Fouling Correlated with Good or Bad Defense https://michaeljagacki.wordpress.com/2020/12/02/is-fouling-correlated-with-good-or-bad-defense/ This guy has actually run some numbers for it and not just postulating. Definitely not as clear cut as you try to make it seem.
Hard to imagine that external factors haven't played a part. The kid has talent, let's see it with some real context for once.
If we say Green didn't stink, but also didn't fastrack to his optimistic ceiling. Is that a fair compromise for both sides? From LoR to other places, I see people giving a passing grade, C+ to B+. This is fair, no? I can give a solid B for this year. Already taking age and Silas into account, giving a passing grade to players on a 22 win team. As Rockets fans, we're being generous.
That would be why i offered context. To have very few fouls you'd have to be excellent on defensive skills to do so without fouling. Or you're not engaged at all and playing soft. My point was to show you don't see many all nba defenders fouling as little as Green. There's one and he's clearly a good defender so it's an outlier. As I said, it's not everything.
I don't think he stinks as a scorer which is the only thing the fanboys care about. He could be better but it's not awful. I think he's one dimensional right now. I think that's a fair description. He's not an elite or good passer, defender, or rebounder. I hope he gets better but it's hard to go from bad to good...
No one ages 19-21 are elite at anything especially when drafted to a bad team unless your name is Luka or LeBron. At the end of the day Jalen Green has the exact same first two years as players like Devin Booker and Anthony Edwards. That's what most likely is his career path. I've provided a basic table of all the players you listed and their relevant stats. I already told you that Kyrie, Luka and LaMelo were unarguably better their first two years. Ant is debatable. Same ball park. The rest were worse. Can you tell me who you thought was better than green on your list outside of the ones I've mentioned?
If he takes a step forward in defense. (net neutral ). It would make Stone/Udoka's job easier when building around Green. 3rd year is pivot year. Am hoping the young core pivot correctly and timely.
The irony is the drop off in scoring efficiency is much larger for Sengun than the other way around when one of them is on the bench. Quite frankly from watching the entire season, Sengun benefits more from Green especially when they do pnr possessions.
it's that he's an inefficient scorer....he can do it, but it's not always a good thing for the team when he tries. That said, his defense is such an abomination that you'll happily take mediocre offense as something to praise him for, I mean, at least he's showing some interest on that side of the ball. I could see a scenario where he becomes actually pretty good offensively, hard to see him being even halfway competent defensively, but anything is possible I guess.
https://thesixersense.com/2023/04/26/nba-player-rankings-top-100-nba-players-2023-playoffs/ Not even a top 100 player right now, but Segun is listed as #84 best. Obviously Green is not as great as people think. Should go ahead a package him in trade with KJ Martin and Tate for Brown or another star after they draft Wemby , Scoot or Miller, and let Segun have legitimate chance of winning with Ime Udoka and getting this team to the top.
The longer we wait the less his perceived value. Now, on draft night is the best opportunity to get the most value in return. Orlando @ 7 and 11 would be the best we could ever hope for. Get some stability in Black or Wallace. Heck even Hood-Schofino will play both offense & defense. Just solid play not an all star. I know these are point guards because Porter isn’t one we NEED one. Let Porter take the start at off guard it’s his natural position (he has zero trade value so we should just keep him till we can’t. This hurts no one).
Green played his first two years in the nba for a team coached by Silas, with no vets, with to pg. This pretty much itself says it is early to make any decision on him. His defense except for on ball defense is horrible. He gets lost, together with the other guards. That will certainly change this year, so again I am happy to wait and see. On offense again, he was sentenced to practicing -receive the ball when you don't have any momentum, and your man is completely on you - take a screen - drive to the basket, or midrange, or make something happen This is also very limited and he showed improved in drawing fouls, finishing but it is a very one-dimensional game, involving no secondary or off-the-ball actions or actions prior to receiving the ball that helps him when he gets the ball. So again, I am happy to wait and see what how Ime can make him expand his game. I believe that we'll see how bad Silas was, once we start seeing(and it will be rather quickly) the improvements both on an individual and a team level.
I don't know if Jalen will be better or worse than some of the guys on that list, but I'd keep an open mind about his growth potential under a real coach with some real talent added into the lineup. A lot of folks like to compare Edwards to Jalen, but if you're just looking at roster talent alone, Jalen has not played with anyone near the caliber or player as KAT. Not to mention the rest of their supporting cast filled with long defenders and athletes. He's also had Rubio, Russell and Conley at PG. Rockets had a chance to play Wall and that would've helped KPJ and Green IMO, but Wall wasn't going to come off the bench and the Rockets were set on starting KPJ. ......Which also leads to the internal dysfunction the Rockets were dealing with. I'd at least hold of on writing him off as just an above average NBA scorer until he has a bit more competency around him. And really that doesn't go for just Jalen Green. I have high hopes for a lot of these young players.
If we don't get Wemby in this draft, we'll have tanked for nothing and this rebuild will start out with a whimper.
Thats goes for everybody ..if you don't get the number 1 pick in this draft going to be a lot of sad teams
