1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

We're ****ed.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Apr 23, 2023.

  1. astros123

    astros123 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    11,710


    Smart Republicans are practically saying they're screwed and biden is going win lol yet we have folks here crying Biden is costing dems. Some of you need to do some policy reading @DonnyMost
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    Just pointing out problems is just griping.

    Democracy by nature is a fragile thing and by definition it takes the involvement of the people. Your argument is that it’s up to the parties to cater to the people forgets that the parties are already made of people and if less people vote and participate it just empowers those fewer who do. In other words it becomes a vicious cycle that feeds the exact things you’re complaining about.

    Yet how do you take out those brain dead partisan idiots that you don’t like if you dont engage in the process?

    the problem that I have with you and others arguments that just complain about the system is that it’s mistaking cynicism as principle. It’s the argument that things are so bad that I’m taking this principled position and not getting involved with the system. As someone that has criticized both parties and Left and Right I get it. Refusing though to get involved and just complaining just means that those who do get involved are going it be the most partisan and / or those with the most self serving interests.
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    This makes me wonder who you're talking to, because I'm not advocating "not participating". I also don't criticize people for participating. "Participating" and blind partisanship are not the same thing. My main problem are people who think we can just "vote D/R harder" the problem away. They're absolutely wrong and hurting us. I don't criticize their "participation" in voting, I criticize their theory of the case and their solution.
     
    ROCKSS, FranchiseBlade and basso like this.
  4. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,425
    Likes Received:
    9,324
  5. astros123

    astros123 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    11,710
    This would make sense if somehow biden hadn't accomplished over 4 trillion dollars of domestic spending while leading ukraine against Russia. CNN/foxnews ratings are down by over 60%. The cable news business plan is failing in front of us. CNN is on the path of going bankrupt.

    You can hate Biden all you want but there's no way you can't say he hasn't been efficient when he's passing huge spending bills with no majority. You can dislike biden and hate him as much as you want but that doesn't change the fact he still passed landmark legislation.
     
    #125 astros123, May 7, 2023
    Last edited: May 7, 2023
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    Sorry missed this earlier.
    I’m not clear I understand what you mean by “theory of the case”. Let me ask you have you participated before in a political caucus?

    I think if you do you will understand how it is those who participate are the ones who make the decisions. Why we have so many problems is that so few participate. In most cases the politicians you see running aren’t just people out of the blue but activist who have made their way up for the grassroots. The problem is that those who participate the most tends to be motivated by single issues.
     
  7. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    'Theory of the case' means their take on what the problem is (and why), and their ideas for solutions.

    You won't be shocked to hear this, but I disagree.

    Participation can only get you so far, It's like saying you can make an engine go faster by just adding more gas. It's true to a point, but eventually the structure as a whole has fixed limitations that need to be addressed before more velocity or efficiency can be achieved. Worse yet, some of those structure may be destined for catastrophic failure.

    This is not a bug of our democracy, it's a feature. I assume there are plenty of SIVs in more varied, healthy democracies across the world. The difference is there are multiple liberal or conservative groups that can satisfy the SIVs concern so there is healthy competition for their vote which creates accountability. I imagine that having multiple options if you're a SIV also makes it easier to not be a SIV because now you can actually think about more issues when you vote since you have second-order preferences and options on the table.
     
  8. astros123

    astros123 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    11,710
    You literally make absolutely no sense at all. Activists have some of the most powerful groups in the democratic party. The climate group literally helped craft biden executive order last week which mandated 40% of climate funds go to poor neighborhoods.

    You never make any coherent talking points other than nihilism. The idea that voting blocks or groups/activists don't have a direct voice in our democracy shows how clueless you are.
     
  9. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    Cool. I am literally not shocked that this doesn't make sense to you, and at this point I literally don't care.
     

Share This Page