Which Starters from 2022-23 would have the hardest time coming off the bench?

Jalen Green by mid season

 

If they are still here and there hasn't been some kind of training camp meltdown, Jalen, Sengun, and Jabari will begin the season in the starting lineup, 100%.

You don't demote prospects of their caliber without giving them a chance to prove it on the court with a new coach. If it isn't working out then you can change the starting lineup during the course of the season. Otherwise you're just incinerating their trade value. Would be organizational malpractice.

That assumes they're still here. If Ime or Stone has some strong opinion that it's not going to work with one of those 3, then you trade them in the summer before word gets out that we're down on them. IMO, it's why Tilman went on about our "4-5 future all-stars". He went too over the top to the point where it was comical, but he was definitely coached to be bullish about all our young players, just like Stone is. Even if we want to move one of our young guys, it has to be from a position of strength.

Easier to ask for more in a trade if you can say "my owner doesn't want me to trade this guy, he believes he's a future all-star".

Tari, KPJ, KJ: highly likely to be coming off the bench if still with the team. Those are the spots for upgrades this summer.

 

So you think your most talented and best young talent is "highly likely to be coming off the bench" but "you can't demote" inferior prospects?

How weird.

 

Who? Tari?

I'm not even arguing about who our most promising prospects are. I like Tari a ton. I'm just describing basic asset management.

If the front office evaluates Jabari as a worse prospect than Tari, then absolutely start Tari in that spot next year. You just have to trade Jabari this summer.

Once a team gives the signal they no longer believe in their highly picked prospect, asset value goes off a cliff. Can't do that to yourself. Just like Warriors should've traded Wiseman a long time ago, as soon as they saw he wasn't their guy. Instead they demoted him and waited and eventually had to salary dump him. Same would be true if we lost conviction in Jalen or Sengun.

I like all these guys to be clear, just describing the process.

 

So you think Scoot starts immediately?

Where do you rank him with (in no particular order):
Cade Cunningham
Suggs
Davion Mitchell
TyTy (ranked #2 point guard in last draft)
Ivey (ranked #1 point guard in last draft)
Scoot Henderson
Giddey

 

LOL, that's funny.

Look, I know some on CF have some weird cognitive bias, but clearly the most talented and best young player on the team is KPJ.....it's not close.

No player on the team has the well rounded skills he has at only 22 years old....and no player on the team is likely to have those skills by the time they are 23.

Anyway, I'll let you keep up your shtick as long as you can, but eventually reality is going to smack you pretty hard if you do indeed attempt to keep this foolishness up.

 

Look at my post history - I think KPJ is quite good and was our best player on the court last year along with Sengun, by a wide margin. Argued with many people on here about it. IDK what you're talking about.

Undeniably KPJ has lower value around the league than Jalen, Jabari, or Sengun though. For a variety of reasons. Organizationally, moving KPJ to a 6th man role doesn't hurt this team's asset position. He'd be perceived largely the same way he's perceived now. He'd probably play roughly the same minutes he plays now. It's basically what's expected by everyone - media, rockets fans, fans of other teams. Wouldn't be a slight to him.

You don't have the flexibility to do that with Jalen, Sengun, or Jabari. Move them from starters to the bench - they go from blue chip prospects straight to Wiseman / Suggs territory. Perception of star upside = gone. Immediately they'll be eyed by other teams as reclamation projects. It's just the way it works with recent high draft picks.

That's what I'm talking about, not ranking our players.

 

Agreed.

KJM is very nice guy but not starting material in a competitive team yet. KPJ? Gone, already.

 

pretty much

 

Making the guy who is by far your best guard and best shooter a "6th man" just to say you did is pretty foolish though. I mean, there's just no valid argument for it. You start your best players.

To even start that conversation, you'd need to draft or otherwise pick up 3 guys, one at the PG, SG, and SF spots all better than KPJ....let's face it, that's not happening.

I don't feel like Udoka is the kind of coach that is going to play guys based solely on draft position.

Honestly the "6th man" BS has always just been trolling.

 

You don't automatically just start your 5 players who are currently best at basketball. If it were that simplistic that part of coaching / GM'ing would be really easy lol.

Jabari Smith was one of the worst basketball players in the NBA most of last season. Jaden Ivey same. Should we have been starting Tate? Should Detroit have been starting Cory Joseph? Of course not.

Look at all the sixth men of the year the last few years -- they're definitely in their teams' top 5 players. Their team's aren't just dumb for having them as sixth men, it's what worked for their lineup construction, roles, and organizational priorities.

I think KPJ is better at basketball than Jalen Green right now (not by as much as you I think, because I think Jalen's rim pressure is so elite). On net, if one of them is going to come off the bench next year it's better for our organization for it to be KPJ. I think that's obvious to everyone involved and observing.

If I had to guess it's obvious to KPJ too, he seems like a pretty perceptive guy (although many on here like to trash him personally, which I detest).

 

.....yeah, those were the decisions of a terrible coach that got fired for making them.

Also, Tate is garbage.

The incoming coach says "youth is not an excuse", he means his guys will have to earn their spot, they aren't going to get it based on the fact that there is a lot of hype around them and a high draft pick was spent on them.

Find me an example of a 6th man who was at worst a top 2 player on the team at the time. You won't find it.

It would take an abysmally foolish coach to put literally the best talent on the roster off the bench.

I don't think it's a given that one of KPJ or Jalen come off the bench....but if you had to put one of them off the bench, you'd go with the guy who is one of the worst defensive players in the entire league who is an inefficient scorer rather than the guy who is your team's best shooter AND best ball handler who would be your best option at three different spots.


No coach that plays guys based on performance would even consider it....but I'm sure Silas would.

 

Coaches of the last four Sixth men of the year: Spoelstra, Mazzulla, Snyder, Lue. Yeah, all abysmally foolish coaches.

The whole point of this discussion is who would be *replaced if we bring in better players than we currently have*. Obviously if we don't bring in a better guard than KPJ, and a better wing shooter to replace KJ at the three, then KPJ will still be starting. That's not a discussion.

But if we bring in players at PG and SF who are better than KPJ, and one of KPJ or Jalen has to become a sixth man... it's going to be KPJ. In the scenario we're discussing, he's not a top 2 player on the team, he's not the best ball handler, not the best shooter.

Look, I doubt you'll be convinced if you can't see that this is obviously what would happen from an organizational perspective. It's the same as if say the Spurs drafted Wemby and had to choose who to bring off the bench between Wemby, Zach Collins, and Keldon Johnson. Wemby as a 19 year old is almost definitely worse at NBA basketball day 1 than those guys, and Pop is no fool and is a "youth is not an excuse" hardass exactly like Udoka, but Wemby's going to start no matter what. Same deal here.

Certain organizational priorities win out. That's just reality.

 

Kj is the prominent candidate to be benched and not take it well. And probably the only one that will be benched.

I don’t think any of the other starters will be benched, maybe kpj if we get a veteran guard, still unlikely. the second tier to complain consists of the ones who are given minutes regardless of how they played: kpj, green, Jabari.

the rest is used to be benched in the most strange ways.

 

So which one of those 6th men were the best player on the team?