He isn't that good. His game is predicated on guard play and he isn't a difference maker especially on a non contending team. his defense has suffered immensely as well. his shot whether thats due to his injuries piling up has fallen off the cliff.
you sign a true impact player like Harden who fulfills exactly what this team needs to move forward to the next stage of the rebuild. Draft the right player whether that's wemby/miller etc. who integrates into all of this. Hire an ideal coach. Fill in the gaps with how the roster shakes out on who is expendable and replace them with vets that actually matter who don't require assets and ridiculous overpay.
I'm not as radioactively as adverse as some are. The Rockets owner has made it clear he is going to spend the cap space. So that means either trying to sign unrestricted free agents - James Harden (if you believe he will come), Kyrie Irving, Draymond Green, Dillon Brooks, George Niang, Harrison Barnes That is assuming these players will want to join the Rockets. Going after and over-paying a restricted free agent: Grant Williams, Cameron Johnson, Austin Reaves, Nassir Little, Tre Jones. That is assuming that teams don't match these contracts. The last option is to trade for players under contract like Smith.
I agree his game is dependent on guard play. Defensively he has gotten better the last couple of years. Agree on his three point and perimeter shooting falling off a cliff. I am not saying the Rockets should trade for him - I am only saying there is a real chance there will not be a lot of top options available if Harden is using the Rockets are leverage. Most the other players the Rockets will likely want, will be restricted. It is why I think the idea that the Rockets have to immediately spend it all is silly. That is what Tilman will want, but it may be foolish.
There was a time that I was pretty pro-Collins. I think Tari’s performance this year has kind of cooled me on the prospect of trading for him, but I won’t completely write it off. I still believe that some team is going to be able to trade for Collins at a discount and get a much better player than you saw on the Hawks this year. If the Rockets decide to be that team, I could get behind it because I think it’s just being opportunistic. The Hawks are going to be $35m over the cap. They will be paying $170m for a .500 team that got bounced in the 1st round. They are scheduled to have a luxury tax bill of $14m. Because the Rockets have plenty of cap room, they don’t have to match salaries. If the Rockets offered KJM for Collins and Atlanta ‘s FRP (#15), it would give them a much cheaper replacement player for Collins and would save them close to $35m. So, while Collins isn’t really at the top of my trade list, I could see scenarios where it might make sense. Some of it might depend on where our pick ends up being. They’ve just got to be ready to take advantage of another team’s desperation.
Soo, how about that John Collins folks... You gotta take the good with the bad. Some nights you get the good.
It changes the post/tweet that has a bunch of mediocre statlines in it by adding in a good stat line.
Congrats. On the 5th game he puts up a decent stat line being carried by trae. Bring out the brinks trucks
I'm not John Collins i deserve no congratulations. I'm just pointing out the reason why you decided to revisit this issue - Has been altered by subsequent recent events, and that we should update our bayesian credences accordingly.
Yeah after game 6 when they’re otw to Cancun I’ll bump it again. It was a no months ago. No a few days ago. And it’ll still be a no on Thursday
Great - looking forward to it. Especially if they happen to upset the Celtics again, which will probably require another good Collins game.
Defensively he is not going to be as good as Jabari and on offense he's literally the worst corner shooter in the NBA. I can totally see why it's not working on the Hawks. He's not the a good shot creator or corner shooter or vertical threat and he's not not best PnR big there. Why would he get any shots? Which shots are you taking from who? I just don't understand the use of such a player.
^Thank god for Collins he avoided the millstone @Mathloom vote of confidence - gleague is not where he wants to end up.
Since the Takeoverse reigns supreme, and since half the board in this thread reminded us that John Collins might be the single worst player to ever pick up a basketball and if he played on the Rockets it would be nothing short of an unmitigated disaster so much so that the bank of hyperbole would have to come crying on its knees to Jerome Powell for a bailout, I'm going to check some takes here from some of our leading NBA takerati Utah Jazz, Offseason Wild Card Utah’s decision to absorb Collins was brilliant. The team got better without coughing up any first-round picks and—depending on what Jordan Clarkson and Talen Horton-Tucker do with their player options, as well as what Utah does with Kelly Olynyk’s non-guaranteed contract—can still have enough cap space to either take on more unwanted salary or dole out a hefty contract. https://www.theringer.com/2023/6/27/23774588/2023-free-agency-preview-players-teams-to-watch Utah Jazz acquire John Collins The Jazz have had Collins on their radar for a while now. And acquiring him for almost nothing of short-term or long-term value in return is a major win llins doesn’t come in as a can’t miss veteran. He had one of the worst seasons of his career this past season, averaging the lowest points per game since his rookie campaign and the lowest rebounding average of his career and posting the worst shooting season of his career. In the first five seasons, he made 55.9 percent of his shots and 37.6 percent of his 3-pointers. That fell to 50.8 percent and 29.2 percent, respectively, last season. His defense has been suspect for many years and probably peaked two years ago. With that said, Collins is a great rim runner and has been one of the better pick-and-roll big men in the league the last few seasons. He can still jump out of the gym and put someone on a poster or YouTube highlight or Instagram reel or TikTok video or whatever we call it these days. The Jazz have to hope Collins’ down season wasn’t a sign of things to come. He really struggled as the Hawks went away from him as one of their primary options behind Trae Young. He took a backseat in a lot of ways, and his overall play and minutes suffered. The Jazz just saw Lauri Markkanen have his best season and become an All-Star and Most Improved Player by changing scenery to Utah. Maybe that’s too ambitious for Collins, but there’s plenty of room for him to grow. The Jazz should be able to play Markkanen, Collins and Walker Kessler all together at the same time. Markkanen showed during his time in Cleveland that he can play the wing/small forward, and that should make the Collins transition a lot easier. It gives the Jazz a lot of frontcourt combinations they can utilize. Things could get a little crowded with rookie Taylor Hendricks in the mix, but the Jazz have no problem getting creative with their lineups. Overall, Utah has believed there’s something there with Collins for years. As the Jazz continue to grow and retool, it cost them next to nothing to bring him into the mix. Grade: A https://theathletic.com/4641887/2023/06/26/john-collins-trade-grades-jazz-hawks/ https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/37826718/nba-trade-grades-breaking-most-impactful-deals Jazz: B+ The Jazz will use cap space to take on Collins' much larger salary in exchange for Gay, a process that could require some work between now and then. Utah doesn't have enough cap space to add Collins and maintain cap holds for both Jordan Clarkson ($20 million) and Talen Horton-Tucker ($19.4 million). Fortunately for the Jazz, there are a few ways to create the necessary space. One is Clarkson exercising his $14.3 million player option for 2023-24, which would allow Utah to offer him a contract extension off that deal rather than re-signing him in free agency. Alternatively, the Jazz could simply sign Clarkson and Horton-Tucker to deals starting at lower values than their cap holds, a likely scenario if both return. Lastly, Utah would have cap space left over if either Clarkson or Horton-Tucker signs elsewhere. Spending their cap space in free agency wasn't a likely outcome for the Jazz, who are still early in the process of retooling their roster after trading away Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell last summer. So Utah's alternative path was probably using space to take on less-desirable contracts while adding draft picks, a market in which it could have competition from the Indiana Pacers, the Oklahoma City Thunder, the San Antonio Spurs and possibly the Washington Wizards. Instead, the Jazz are basically treating Collins as an addition via free agency on a three-year, $78.5 million deal -- albeit with the benefit of offloading Gay's $6.5 million salary this season. Surely, part of the hope for Utah is that Collins' shooting slump was the product of a sprain to his right ring finger in March 2022, one that apparently hadn't healed by last summer. If another offseason allows Collins to get back to the kind of above-average shooting we saw prior to the injury, the value proposition becomes far different. Either way, the Jazz will likely get Collins more of the pick-and-roll opportunities on which he once thrived. Most likely, he fits into Utah's starting lineup at power forward between Walker Kessler and Lauri Markkanen, the role Jarred Vanderbilt played prior to last season's trade deadline. Vanderbilt, a less effective 'roll man, still saw greater volume of them (25.6 per 100 possessions) than Collins did in Atlanta. More than anything, I'm optimistic about Jazz coach Will Hardy playing to Collins' strengths, something he was able to do with what seemed like a misfit roster last season. Not that Snyder isn't capable of doing the same, but he had to worry about building around Atlanta's backcourt strength and winning games right now in a way that isn't as pressing a concern as development in Utah. Given how long he has been involved in trade rumors, it's easy to forget that Collins won't turn 26 until September. His current contract takes him through what should be his prime. Because of Collins' dependence on his athleticism, he could age more quickly than the typical NBA player. That still shouldn't be an issue on this deal. This is all weirdly discordant analysis given what was thrown around earlier.
