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Gun Violence Is Actually Worse in Red States. It’s Not Even Close.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Apr 24, 2023.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Good article about regional cultural influence on gun violence.

    Gun Violence Is Actually Worse in Red States. It’s Not Even Close. - POLITICO
    America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

    Listen to the southern right talk about violence in America and you’d think New York City was as dangerous as Bakhmut on Ukraine’s eastern front.

    In October, Florida’s Republican governor Ron DeSantis proclaimed crime in New York City was “out of control” and blamed it on George Soros. Another Sunshine State politico, former president Donald Trump, offered his native city up as a Democrat-run dystopia, one of those places “where the middle class used to flock to live the American dream are now war zones, literal war zones.” In May 2022, hours after 19 children were murdered at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott swatted back suggestions that the state could save lives by implementing tougher gun laws by proclaiming “Chicago and L.A. and New York disprove that thesis.”

    In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.

    The reasons for these disparities go beyond modern policy differences and extend back to events that predate not only the American party system but the advent of shotguns, revolvers, ammunition cartridges, breach-loaded rifles and the American republic itself. The geography of gun violence — and public and elite ideas about how it should be addressed — is the result of differences at once regional, cultural and historical. Once you understand how the country was colonized — and by whom — a number of insights into the problem are revealed.

    In the process they laid down the institutions, symbols, cultural norms and ideas about freedom, honor and violence that later arrivals would encounter and, by and large, assimilate into. Some states lie entirely or almost entirely within one of these regional cultures, others are split between them, propelling constant and profound disagreements on politics and policy alike in places like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, California and Oregon. Places you might not think have much in common, southwestern Pennsylvania and the Texas Hill Country, for instance, are actually at the beginning and end of well documented settlement streams; in their case, one dominated by generations of Scots-Irish and lowland Scots settlers moving to the early 18th century Pennsylvania frontier and later down the Great Wagon Road to settle the upland parts of Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia, and Tennessee, and then into the Ozarks, North and central Texas, and southern Oklahoma. Similar colonization movements link Maine and Minnesota, Charleston and Houston, Pennsylvania Dutch Country and central Iowa.

    Understanding how these historical forces affect policy issues — from gun control to Covid-19 responses — can provide important insights into how to craft interventions that might make us all safer and happier. Building coalitions for gun reform at both the state and federal level would benefit from regionally tailored messaging that acknowledged traditions and attitudes around guns and the appropriate use of deadly violence are much deeper than mere party allegiance. “A famous Scot once said ‘let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws,’ because culture is extremely powerful,” says Carl T. Bogus of Roger Williams University School of Law, who is a second amendment scholar. “Culture drives politics, law and policy. It is amazingly durable, and you have to take it into account.”

    ...

    So what’s behind the stark contrasts between the regions?

    In a classic 1993 study of the geographic gap in violence, the social psychologist Richard Nisbett of the University of Michigan, noted the regions initially “settled by sober Puritans, Quakers and Dutch farmer-artisans” — that is, Yankeedom, the Midlands and New Netherland — were organized around a yeoman agricultural economy that rewarded “quiet, cooperative citizenship, with each individual being capable of uniting for the common good.”

    Much of the South, he wrote, was settled by “swashbuckling Cavaliers of noble or landed gentry status, who took their values . . . from the knightly, medieval standards of manly honor and virtue” (by which he meant Tidewater and the Deep South) or by Scots and Scots-Irish borderlanders (the Greater Appalachian colonists) who hailed from one of the most lawless parts of Europe and relied on “an economy based on herding,” where one’s wealth is tied up in livestock, which are far more vulnerable to theft than grain crops.

    These southern cultures developed what anthropologists call a “culture of honor tradition” in which males treasure their honor and believed it can be diminished if an insult, slight or wrong were ignored. “In an honor culture you have to be vigilant about people impugning your reputation and part of that is to show that you can’t be pushed around,” says University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign psychologist Dov Cohen, who conducted a series of experiments with Nisbett demonstrating the persistence of these quick-to-insult characteristics in university students. White male students from the southern regions lashed out in anger at insults and slights that those from northern ones ignored or laughed off. “Arguments over pocket change or popsicles in these Southern cultures can result in people getting killed, but what’s at stake isn’t the popsicle, it’s personal honor.”

    Pauline Grosjean, an economist at Australia’s University of New South Wales, has found strong statistical relationships between the presence of Scots-Irish settlers in the 1790 census and contemporary homicide rates, but only in Southern areas “where the institutional environment was weak” — which is the case in almost the entirety of Greater Appalachia. She further noted that in areas where Scots-Irish were dominant, settlers of other ethnic origins — Dutch, French and German — were also more violent, suggesting that they had acculturated to Appalachian norms. The effect was strongest for white offenders and persisted even when controlling for poverty, inequality, demographics and education.

    ...
     
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  2. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    I always gotta laugh when they try to make NY out to be some murderous war zone…the hyperbole might work with the mindless drones who have no critical thinking skills, but not with normal people

    for a place that big and condensed, NY is pretty safe
     
  3. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Have you been to Oakland ?
    It’s so bad Steph and warriors left
    And the raiders
    And the A’s
    @ROXRAN
    @Salvy
    @J.R.
    @AroundTheWorld
     
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    The last time the government tried to infringe upon the South's cherished traditions didn't end up well...


    Let's bring back shooting duels, and televise them.
    -Dana White
     
  5. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    I would love to see all the fake wokies who live in the south live in

    South side of Chicago
    Oakland , any part
    Bronx NY
    Newark NJ
    Compton CA

    You would run back to the fifth ward like you were Carl Lewis breh
    @ROXRAN
    @basso
    @J.R.
    @AroundTheWorld


     
  6. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @Salvy

    hey fat wokies, I heard it was cheaper to get a tummy tuck in Mexico!

    don’t worry gringos its safe
    @AroundTheWorld
     
  7. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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    Republicans always blame those big Democratic cities in their states, but they make the gun laws. Heck, the only reason most of the big cities are Democrats is because you can't gerrymander city officials Make our cities, workplaces, and environment safer and stop voting for Republicans!
     
  8. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  9. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    Abbott and the far right are idiots. I roll my eyes every time they bring up Chicago, NYC or LA. NYC and Los Angeles are both literally safer than Houston or Dallas. Chicago barely breaks in at #20 on the top 20 most dangerous cities and has an overall crime rate lower than Houston. Violent crime is higher in Chicago than Dallas, but property crime in Dallas is actually higher than in Chicago.
     
  10. Salvy

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  11. Salvy

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    Suuuuure, Lori Lightfoot....

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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  13. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @Salvy
    @Os Trigonum
    @AroundTheWorld
    @basso

    My Bad,
    CLEARLY THE WOKIES FAILED GEOGRAPY?
    "NEW FRANCE"?? BREH THAT'S NEW ORLEANS
    I KNOW YOU WOKIES HATE MATH, ENGLISH, SPANISH, AND ART BUT DAMN BREH
    MAPS
     
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  14. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  15. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    Top 10 Murder rates. Color-coded for party affiliation:


    [​IMG]
     
  16. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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  17. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    Why are Murder Rates Persistently Higher in Red States?
    Crime and murder are complicated issues that are, unfortunately, ripe for demagoguery. This paper is not intended to provide definitive causes for the growing and persistent Red State murder gap; rather it is meant to show that it exists. But here are some thoughts on why red states have higher murder rates.

    • Guns: Gun ownership rates are far higher in red states than blue states. Studies have estimated that gun ownership rates are as much as twice as high in a typical red state than a typical blue state. Since 79% of all homicides are committed with a firearm, it stands to reason that more guns will produce more murders, not less.
    • Poverty: Studies have found a correlation between poverty and violent crime. Red states tend to have higher poverty rates than blue states.
    • Educational Attainment: Those who have a high school diploma or less tend to be overrepresented among victims and perpetrators of homicide. Increasingly, there is an educational attainment gap between red and blue states as well.
    • Social Service and Police Resources: Despite accusations that Democrats “defund the police,” we found that cities with Democratic mayors fund police at far higher levels on a per capita basis than cities run by Republican mayors. In 2020, the 25 largest Democrat-run cities spent38% more on policing per capita than the 25 largest Republican-run cities. In addition, blue states may be more likely to fund social service programs that help steer people away from violent crime than red states.


      https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem
     
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  18. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  19. Xopher

    Xopher Member

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    So you researched that when you were there for your penis enlargement. How much did they charge you to go from 3" to 4.5"?
     
  20. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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