I just don't think the comparison between the two is very accurate - they are vastly different in many ways from the treatment, to the consequences. As far as gender and sex - there has always been an understanding of the differences, it just wasn't articulated. The definition of heterosexual didn't even exist until a little over 150 years ago. Asexuality wasn't defined really until the late 1940's. The Romans for example separated gender identity and sex. Further, things linked to gender are not inherent to sex. For example, what is viewed as feminine is NOT naturally based on sex but social gender expectations. There are lots of women that do not fit the gender norms but they are still female. Often times gender norms can be oppressive or toxic - we see that with toxic masculinity or femininity. On a side note that is also why some women find some transwomen patronizing, because they adopt femininity and mistake that for what makes one a female.
I would think that both an anorexic and a gender dysphoric person would both be in a dark place and both would need treatment to be brought out of their dark place. This is not the same as suppressing their feelings which (for both) could lead to further emotional struggle. I think that, for anorexia, the solution would not be "let's all pretend that Sarah is overweight; we need to support her". Similarly, I think that much of the public feels like pretending that a biological man is actually a biological woman is also not the right solution. Homosexuals, however, isn't the same as gender dysphoria. Certainly there are people who will just hate on trans people. But others (especially biological females) are being impacted by the trans-gender movement. This is why I created this thread. How far are we willing to adjust our society for transgender people?
Nope. Pointing out the fact that a particular group is misogynist or entitled isn't why someone has anxiety urinating. I have supported and will continue to support transgendered rights, but I am not going to defy science, nor compromise another marginalized group because you believe that it will magically let them urinate free of anxiety. Acknowledging the difference between sex and gender, and being aware of entitlement doesn't justify not treating people with basic dignities. The people that fail to do that have the issue.
Stop deflecting. Calling a group of people entitled who have that constant backdrop of social anxiety and bullying is wrong. Flat out. It delegitimizes their experiences as humans. You aren't allowing these people to have outlets to possibly vent their frustrations in incorrect ways. You call it entitlement rather than merely being overzealous or irrational. Irrational is more apt. But being irrational given history of their constant anxiety any time in public is what I would consider "expected". Are you accounting for factors like these people who experience constant bullying, constant anxiety from day to day interactions might do things like form bubble communities where they can express themselves freely without said anxiety which can lead to some bubble think? Why call it entitlement? These people have every justifiable reason to form bubbles and have outlets of some extreme thoughts If society expected them in the first place, they would be thinking in completely different ways more acceptable to your liking most likely.
It isn't an absolute. Anyone that is calling for a male to be recognized as a female is going to be disappointed because they are inherently not the same and have different experiences. Now, we can call a transgendered women - a women and they can live their life as a women for the most part, and there is no real harm with that for the most part. However, they will never be female - and there is a distinction, from a cultural and biological level. None of that should keep us from respecting people on a basic level.........transgendered people should have the right to marry, adopt, live their lives as the gender they choose and be respected like anyone else.
How else are they different? (besides starvation=death, which we already discussed) Link? I'm not finding anything that supports this statement. There's some truth to this in the sense that... what we find attractive in the opposite sex can change from time-to-time and culture-to-culture (nowadays, it's generally seen as attractive for women to shave body hair.. historically, in some cultures, it was attractive for women to bind their feet until they bleed. But that's not what defines a "woman" and never has. If an ambulance pulls up to help an injured person, they don't decide on what treatment to give simply based on whether or not the victim is wearing makeup. So where do you draw the line? Should a trans-woman (biological male) also qualify for a government loan that is intended for women-owned businesses? Where else do you draw the line?
Why call it entitlement? Because it is - why would you want to redefine what it is? It is absolutely entitlement. You seem to think that acknowledging that it is entitlement someone invalidates people being treated with basic respects and protections, and that isn't the case at all. The reality is that you can have both for the most part - but no, I am not going to suspend facts because a particular group has faced hardship and I believe to do so is really disrespectful.
Entitlement is a notion usually considered insult people reserve for privileged people who want more of something without earning it. This isn't entitlement. This is a group of people who have been **** on to the point where they literally can only exist as who they are by forming enclaves expressing thoughts under that cloud. Radical feminists aren't entitled. They are just radical and their experiences made them radical.
Just a reminder to anyone here who thinks I'm an extremist for berating someone for calling the majority of trans activists entitled.... I reaptidly have said that I believe its up to indiviudal sports leagues to decide about the trans issue. And i don't believe trans people have an inehrent right to be in sports leagues. I just think its a culture wars issue purposefully spammed to us to create scapegoats in society for a failing economic system that results in frustration for common people and I think it sucks that trans people are the scapegoat. I'd morally feel better if it was billionaires.
What are the differences? I suppose I would ask you what are the real similarities other than they both are disorders? One deals with basic physical health and the other one really doesn't? One is a social construct and the other one isn't? One has a history of people living long as fruitful lives and the other one doesn't? I understand you were trying to find something similar, but they are more different than similar. Sex and Gender Identity | A guide through the history of sexuality and gender identity. (baylor.edu) Above is a link I found quickly, but there is a lot of research out there. In the past, a lot of times societies framed the issues differently - but there has always been a distinction between sexuality and gender. Gender - and the associated "feminine" has changed some throughout history but sex never has.... so by definition there is a difference. What is viewed as feminine has largely been pushed and glorified by the patriarchy and has little to do what it means to be a female, beyond being a social pressure. Wearing make up - not having opinions - being submissive ......... that has nothing inherently to do with being a female other than it is a social pressure exerted on females. That is a good question and this in part what society is fighting over. What I can say, is for me personally - I don't agree with Florida where they try to hide the very existance of homosexuals and transgendered people, as if they are deviants.......... I don't agree with the rhetoric I see from Republicans concerning transgenderism as well. I personally don't think that hormone treatment or surgery should be an option for children until we have more research. However, I do think that health insurance should pay for transgendered treatment. I think that people should be able to refer to themselves as men or women, as they feel fit and people should try to respect that. I do believe there is a practical difference between sex and gender though and that should be respected, and females should have a say on where that line is drawn. As for scholarships or grants - I can be convinced otherwise, but I tend to believe there should be some just for females, as they are an historically oppressed group and their unique experiences (which differ from those of a transwoman) should be celebrated and respected.
Being entitled isn't necessarily an insult - it is a reality. Also yeah - a male that grew up in a patriarchy and had the social benefits of it, deciding that they can be female (not a trans-woman) is incredible entitlement..... it overlooks all of the unique experiences that females have from birth, it overlooks all of the struggles females have living in a patriarchy and it overlooks the unique culture that females share and the basic challenges that exist for females.
Who said anything about the majority of trans-activists? Half of trans-activists were born female, and I have seen very little entitlement expressed by trans-men. For the most part, trans-men have expressed a desire to be left alone. Do a majority of trans-activists believe that there is no distinction between sex and gender? Or...... do a majority of trans-activists believe that trans people should just be free of bullying and discrimination? - Because there is certainly a difference. You don't believe trans people have an inherent right to be in a sports league........ but I am a bigot for suggesting that there should be a trans-men's division? Those are all very important issues - and cultural wars have been used to distract for thousands of years - but in this particular case, it means a lot to me as I am knee deep in the middle of the issue.
Majority of trans activists today support the things you are saying are entitlement. So yes a majority.
I don't believe there is an inherent right for trans people to be in women's leagues. They have an inherent right to participate in sports And I never called you a bigot.
My thoughts are that you might want to ask a transgender person in an honest and sincere way what their actual struggle is. Imagine being wired to think and feel like a man but be in a woman's body? That's not a mental illness as much as a wiring problem. You can't fix that. It is who you are. An anorexic person is someone who has been traumatized and anorexia is one of their unhealthy coping mechanisms they've developed. These are just not the same thing at all.
