White Sox knew the Astros signs in the 2005 World Series

I thought we knew this already? Or at least Blummer casually mentioned it as a possibility during one of the broadcasts (he was on the WS).

 

It was unimportant as long as it wasn't the Astros competing.

 

Fixed that for you

 

Am I missing something? He said we had their sign to steal bases? Is that all they had or are they implying they had all signs

 

Ozzie wouldn't be bragging about something that old man Biggio wouldn't be doing in the first place.

 

Of course they were. They weren't banging trashcans, though?

 

THEY KNEW THE SIGNS? /? /? /!!!?!?!

 

Yawn

 

It’s baseball- cheating is part of the game as much as anything else.

 

Call me crazy, but in any other major sport (basketball, football) haven't the opponents often deciphered what play is coming, but ultimately have a negligible effect on the outcome? I'd guess that in all of them, the opponent often knows what is coming, but are unable to stop it. In the end, execution and talent matter. Satchel Paige laughs at this. He'd tell his teammates to literally sit down while he told the batter what was coming and still K'ed him. Zach Greinke laughs, too. Is Steph Curry surprising defenses from 26 feet out? Did teams not know Brady was passing the ball? At some point, this is just noise.

I played on organized basketball teams up to a semi-pro level, and often we KNEW the other teams play calls. Did it provide an edge? Maybe in the setup. But preventing the ultimate outcome really came down to talent and execution. More often than not, knowing didn't matter. Either I can stop you, or I can't.

 

Cheating is only a problem when the wrong teams do it well like the Astros or the league isn't paid off like the Black Sox.

 

That explains Konerko’s grand slam

 

Just listened to all of his interview...Ozzie Guillen is a ****ing moron, and nothing he said means anything.

 

NFL offenses are literally built on deception - play-action, route options, misdirection, etc. Same for defenses - disguising coverage and blitzes. If you know the opposing play calls, you can destroy an NFL opponent.

But if you're right, you're saying the Astros are idiots for spending so much effort on something that wasn't helpful.

 

Fair points. I actually agree 100% on your points about deception, and would add that hard snap counts fall into that category as well. That doesn't disprove what I'm positing though. How many 4th down situations have we seen where everyone in the stadium (and in front of TVs) knows they aren't going to snap the ball, yet a hard snap counts tricks a defender into jumping the neutral zone? Plenty. Execution matters. All that deception you mentioned? Same explanation. Execution matters even, and especially when, someone knows what is coming. The effort is to get someone(s) to go against the nature of what they are trained to do and, in some cases, know will cause a negative play. It's a constant cat and mouse game played out at an extremely high level.

In no way am I saying that teams always, or even frequently, know the other teams calls. But I assure you it happens more than a few times, and it doesn't guarantee success because of the execution you spoke on.

As for the Astros? There's plenty of evidence that the system they implemented didn't provide any tangible benefit. I suppose that's debatable because of the potentially psychological benefits, but do I think they needed to do it? Not at all. Does that make them "idiots"? That's a bit strong for me. If you aren't cheating you aren't trying, right?

Hope that explains it better, and I thank you for the response. Cheers!

 

There's plenty of evidence that the system they implemented didn't provide any tangible benefit. I suppose that's debatable because of the potentially psychological benefits, but do I think they needed to do it? Not at all. Does that make them "idiots"? That's a bit strong for me. If you aren't cheating you aren't trying, right?

Everyone forever can/has stolen sighns, so **** it whatever

How stupid do you have to be to...

Bang Bang Bang on a a ******* trashcan?

 

Yeah, well, welcome to the NFL...?

"Deception", though? Not sure about that.

 

Stop and go routes. Play action. Misdirection. Hard counts as mentioned earlier. The bizarro KC linemen dancing around in a circle. The whole point of all that is to trick the defense into doing something you're not doing so you get wide open plays. Disguising coverages is the same on the defensive side. The way to make a play successful in the NFL is to convince the other team you're doing something different than they plan for - that's deception.