Alperen Sengun is the Rockets' REAL franchise player - all other threads are copycats

I like the optimism

hope you're right!

 

One has over 3 years of professional experience, the other is about to finish his rookie season

 

@cmoak1982

 

There’s a stat called win shares.
Paolo has done worse in a far more heliocentric system that is catered to him.

And 3 years of “pro” basketball and the same age is a good thing, not a negative.

 

I heard people say this is a bottom-feeding franchise that shts its fanbase on the sewer floor.
Tsk tsk...
I'm not that harsh, but I can state with confidence that ignorance abounds in this crowd.

 

Only idiots are talking about trading him for the sake of it. Otherwise, most of the time I hear him come up in trade talks are for stars in return. Also, outside 1-2 idiots no one as denied Sengun’s skill or talent for his age. What people have and always have had serious reservations about (including me and I’m a huge fan) is his lack of elite athleticism ANYWHERE as well as range from anywhere outside the post and how that will probably hold him back on both sides the court. It’s not about where he is at now (which is clearly far past most of his peers) but where he can be years down the road.

 

I define elite athleticism personally as having a physical trait that allows you to dominate most individual matchups. This could be height, strength, agility, mobility, speed, explosiveness, bounce, etc or a combination of any of those physical traits.

Bari has elite mobility (great at moving in any direction) and is above average in most other categories compared to other PFs (wingspan, vertical, speed). His mobility is a huge part of why he can easily switch when tasked to guard multiple positions. He also has a frame that seems like it can put on muscles pretty easily without really affecting his mobility.

Trying to use "dunks" and "blocks" as a way to measure the importance of leaping is pretty simple minded. Chris Paul as an old and undersized PG can still dunk if he wants to. You see him sometimes do it during all-star weekend with his kid. It's just not not practical as it takes a lot more energy and has no real advantage over a layup other than to try and overpower a contest. I remember when Kobe had a transition fast break during ASG when he was still in his early 30s and did a normal layup and got boo'd. You think he couldn't have done a 360? No, he could but it's just a waste of energy. Anyways, going back to the original point, if old ass CP3 can still dunk you don't think 6'9/6'10 Sengun can't? As for blocks, it's mostly about positioning and willingness to challenge. This is also why I said I am not as down on Sengun defensively IF we can get a good defensive system in place and have the proper player discipline to execute it.

Here is where verticality and general leaping DOES matter however. When you are next to the rim, it gives you the ability to rise up from a standing position and yam it with force. Even if you don't yam it, it still allows you to power through opponent contact to finish at the rim with much greater ease. Remember those bunnies Sengun (and Jokic) miss right next to the rim way more often than he should be? Being a better vertical leaper or even just leaping better in general really helps with that. For blocking, it greatly helps in recovering from being out late on defensive positioning or overcoming distance defensively. Remember Dream's block on Starks? That doesn't happen without Dream's superior bounce and length.

Finally, you seem to enjoy taking discussions about athleticism to the extreme. It is not a binary argument. It is not, oh if you don't have elite athleticism you can't be a superstar. I have never said "Sengun will never become a star because he lacks athleticism." What I have said and will always say is "Without elite athleticism, it is much harder for a player to be a star" as well as "I will always support drafting someone with athletic headroom (potential, talent whatever you want to call it) over someone skilled as there is usually a lower ceiling for them."

BTW... Duncan had elite combination of size and strength coming into the NBA. He wasn't Shaq, but he could overpower most PFs and Cs fairly easily.

 

Not saying it’s a negative, just saying he has more professional experience

 

I'm really so tired of this "archetype" bs. Can someone for f sake let me know when was the last time Jalen Green or Kevin Porter Junior archetype has won the league?!

 

Golden State Warriors raise their hands saying "Me, me, me... I can answer this one!"

 

Oh goodness gracious, now we putting KPJ as either Curry or Klay? I'll give you Green could be in time if he develops but KPJ?? Come on man.

 

Curry-Klay and KPJ-Jalen have nothing in common other than the positions they play.

 

I didn't say either Green nor KPJ would ever reach the level of Curry and Klay. That wasn't the question either. The poster asked when was the last time someone in their archetype has won anything. Curry and Klay are both guards (wings if you don't like old school NBA position definitions) who were (and in Steph's case still are) the focus of their teams offense. Sounds like how our offense is structured as far as focus.

Major difference of course being skill of players and type of offense that we run, but having to wings as the primary focus fits the archetype.

 

Then perhaps you should define what "... Jalen Green or Kevin Porter Junior archetype..." are? They are no where near their skill level currently but the players themselves (KPJ and Green) have stated that they'd like to model (synonym of archetype btw) their games after them.

 

They can say whatever they'd like, all lies until proven otherwise on the court.

Alpi said he wants to be like Embiid in mid-range game but i don't think anyone takes him seriously or thinks he's Embiid archetype. Words are free.