He's 23 effectively If Jalen Green plays like KPJ in 2 seasons posting similar numbers, I would say he's a failed project and it's time to see what we can get for him
Jalen would have to become a better ball handler, better shooter, better passer, and overall more efficient player... and he only has 18 months till he's KPJ's current age. That's just what he'd have to do on offense. That's a ton of improvement in a very short time, I think most people would be thrilled if he pulled it off, not calling him a failed project.
I don’t disagree with you because I have hopes Jalen will develop into a star and significantly better than KPJ is now (and better than the likes of Herro, Simons, Maxey, Poole etc.) So if Jalen became KPJ’s level I’d be very disappointed — but he’d still be a good player in a vacuum, just not relative to our expectations. Especially if on KPJ’s contract. If we traded him it’d be for real value. Same with KPJ, I’d lose no sleep if we dealt him. But we’d deal him for value because he is quite a good young player. I mean, it was just reported today that Maxey is getting a max $200M extension. He’s the same age as KPJ, similar usage, worse physical and defensive tools, worse playmaking, and 3 pts higher TS with much more dependent offense. Good young offensive guards like Maxey and KPJ are valuable, even if they can’t play PG.
Firstly, Green and KPJ are already providing similar value on offense. Green's lower field goal percentages are compensated for by his ability to get to the line, which he is doing twice as often as KPJ, and his lower turnover rate. He's also scoring at a higher volume. I don't know what gave you the idea that KPJ is a better ballhandler than Green. There is nothing to back that up. Green clearly takes better care of the ball while also being much more successful at driving into heavy traffic. I am not convinced KPJ is a better passer than Green. Put Green in KPJ's role and tell him "you're our point guard" and I bet he puts up similar assist numbers. And lastly: You really, really shouldn't minimize the difference 18 months of development makes for prospects in their late teens and early 20s. It's absolutely huge. A lot of players take big steps forward as they mature out of that college age bracket into being, y'know... grown men. You can take a look at the leaps players like SGA, Tyrese Haliburton, De'Aaron Fox, and Anthony Edwards all made around that age 22-23 range to see what a big deal it is. If a guy hasn't had some kind of breakout by that age range after being in the league for a few years (cough, KPJ) that is concerning for their long-term potential.
Green's job is different. He should be shooting more. If he has the same numbers as KPJ, something is wrong.
KPJ is a better ball handler and passer than Green and Green is a better score than KPJ. If fans and the organization give them time, I think the can flourish further in their roles
I do not believe this is accurate. Estimation of possessions that end in a TO is in regards to TOV% being used for the team. TOV% for the player would be in relation to the team. This actually showcases the difference we have in how we view KPJ. When I am looking at AST%, TOV%, AST/TO etc, I am not comparing him with other scorers, but other playmakers as well as other successful "combo" guards. Compared to other successful playmakers, KPJ virtually always lags noticeably behind in passing efficiency. Now, if we are talking about "combo" guards (guards who can both playmake and score) that have comparable passing efficiency, then you will almost always find that KPJ noticeably lags behind from in scoring efficiency ie lacks the ability to compensate for poor passing with superior scoring. Jordan Pool is probably the closest comparison we have to KPJ and ironically, he is one of the players that I feel is overrated and overpaid. We will have to agree to disagree on this point. Until we see what KPJ looks like with a real PG, he is who his numbers are. Not saying you are wrong, just saying that we don't know who is right or wrong. Currently, I find his ability as an ISO volume scorer lacking and no way do I consider a hair above average guard TS% "good". For me, age matters very little when you have experience. He is a 4th year vet, so I expect for him to act and perform like a 4th year vet. For example, if I take my car to the shop and there is a 22 year old who was just hired and another 22 year old who has been there for 3 years and is currently in their 4th year and both folks have comparable (comparably bad) performance, I am not going to go "Oh they are only 22 years old." Instead, I will be thinking "What the hell have you been doing with your time at the shop these past few years?" for the 4th year 22 yr old. I definitely agree on the PG part. We will have to agree to disagree on the good player part though. I think he has talent and potential and can be a good or even great player in a different role. I don't think he's a good player NOW however. Regardless, good discussion!
Yeah good Discussion. Only two more points: 1 - TOV % is definitely what I described. Think about it, if KPJ was 16% of our turnovers when he was on the floor, that’d be really really good since he has the ball the most. It isn’t that. It’s that he turns the ball over 16% of the time he “uses” a possession (based on a formula that estimates possessions used). 2 - In your mechanic analogy, who are the mechanics that were just hired who are better than KPJ? KPJ has definitely had a better offensive season than any rookie, and has had a better offensive season than any 2nd year player except arguably Franz Wagner and Sengun. How many 22 and under players in the NBA are better than KPJ right now? Not better prospects, just straight up statistically better at basketball today? 8-10 max? That’s pretty good!
He is 22, we have gone over this, just because you want him to be 23 for your narrative to protect your little wubby doesn't make it true. Stop lying and your points will be better. Thank you, he is playing great and he is playing out of his natural position for the good of the team - has he been perfect, of course not, no one has. It is staggeringly stupid to blame him for anything - he is doing what is asked of him, and the organization has done NOTHING to help him on the floor - not installed a system that would help him and EVERYONE else be successful. We should be running the Golden State offense and teaching our players movement and cuts, and watching our entire team develop better habits, better shot creation and finally better shot making. Instead we get this "roll the ball out crap" from the worst coach in NBA history (Record wise) - and some fans just want to blame players......it is like they are incapable of in depth analysis or study and just rely on inaccurate made up stats to support an argument. I am convinced they never played the game or coached it in any way, or else they would have a much greater understanding of what is going on with this team. You can't bury your head in statistics and pretend to understand the game. Statistics are to help support efforts on the court, they are at best 60% of the equation. DD
He's 22 and 11 months. Last time I checked we live in a continuous world. Real world isn't discrete. Discrete math is for computer science nerds. Real world follows calculus.
Right so 22 - all this year......and will be 23 all next season - those are the facts, please stop lying. DD
He was 22 and 7 months at the beginning of the season and 22 and 11 months at the end. He is a fourth year player.
See I know what you are trying to do. Jalen Green just turned 21. So if you keep saying he's 22 the perception you want people to have is KPJ is only a year older. You want that perception ingrained.
I saw Clutchfans statement when he did a Podcast with Frank from the Chop Shop and I wholeheartedly agree. To me those are designed reads. If there is no one out there who can consistently make a corner 3, why are you passing? It would definitely behoove them to because it would open the offense but it's a two way street....if he pass it and they don't make it, KPJ is blamed and if he doesn't pass, he's blamed.
Just to be perfectly clear: Green is 21 years and 2 months old, and KPJ is 22 years and 11 months old (give or take a few days). So that is actually a difference of 21 months, not 18, or in other words about 1 and 3/4 of a year. It is much more fair to say their age difference is 2 years than 1, but if you want to be accurate, there you go. 21 months. That difference wouldn't matter much if they were in their mid to late 20s, but it's a massive difference at Green's age. So much basketball development happens around age 19-22.
The biggest thing would be efficiency because the gap in the other skill based areas you mentioned is not like say a Iverson vs. E Snow but more like Cassell vs. K Smith 18 months is basically equal to 3 NBA seasons since they are basically 6 months based on calendar games Pretty sure you were one of the posters I would imagine who claimed Green became magically (and almost impossibly) MUCH better post all star break rookie year, so Green should be fine given 18 more months to hone his skills and gain more game experience if health permits KPJ is pretty much who he is going to be, but he should maintain or improve his current efficiency coming into his fifth season and moving forward
This from the guy who was still talking about how Green was good for a 20 year old 3 days before he turned 21.... Funny how you round up for some while rounding down for others based on what narrative you want to push at the moment
His turnovers did go up from last season and his assists did go down from last season. See if he can keep it up next year.
