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Donald Trump Indicted

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by don grahamleone, Mar 30, 2023.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald...ork-stormy-daniels-824111b2?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

    What’s Missing in the Trump Indictment
    For the charges to be felonies, Alvin Bragg needs a second crime. What is it?
    By The Editorial Board
    April 4, 2023 at 6:49 pm ET

    The public can now read Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s indictment against former President Trump, as well as his more voluble “statement of facts,” but the speculation and leaks of recent weeks were well informed. There are few surprises, except perhaps astonishment that Mr. Bragg’s case looks even weaker than we expected.

    Mr. Trump “repeatedly and fraudulently falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election,” the DA says. The charges are based on the $130,000 that former Trump fixer Michael Cohen paid to hush up Stormy Daniels about her alleged affair with Mr. Trump. Mr. Cohen was reimbursed via a monthly retainer “disguised as a payment for legal services.”

    The 34 counts in the indictment are each for an individual business record: invoices from Mr. Cohen, reimbursement checks from Mr. Trump, ledger entries at the Trump Organization. Mr. Bragg has padded the indictment this way to include nearly three dozen counts, but they describe the same conduct. The DA’s statement of facts also brings up Mr. Trump’s coordination with the tabloid mavens at the National Enquirer to kill other allegations, but this is superfluous window dressing.

    Here’s the big question that Mr. Bragg still hasn’t adequately answered: Where is the second crime? Recall that falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in New York. It’s a felony only if the books were cooked with “an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.” When Mr. Trump worked out this reimbursement arrangement with Mr. Cohen, what other crime was he allegedly trying to cover up?

    The leading theory going into Tuesday was that Mr. Bragg would claim a violation of campaign-finance laws, and he does. The $130,000 to Ms. Daniels “was illegal,” the DA says flatly, noting that Mr. Cohen “has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution and served time in prison.” But Mr. Cohen’s guilty plea hardly makes this point indisputable, and in fact Mr. Cohen seems to regret lately how he handled his case.

    He also pleaded guilty to tax evasion. “The lies by the Southern District of New York against me for the tax evasion, I actually hope it comes out,” Mr. Cohen told CNN last week. “I have all the documents to show. There was no tax evasion.” Is this the guy Mr. Bragg is hoping to make into his star witness?

    Brad Smith, a former member of the Federal Election Commission, has argued the money to Ms. Daniels didn’t constitute a campaign expenditure. “People pay hush money even if they’re not running for office. They buy clothes, get haircuts, settle lawsuits, make charitable contributions,” Mr. Smith wrote on Twitter. Political candidates also buy clothes, maybe more expensive ones than they otherwise would, but that doesn’t make it a campaign expense.

    At a press conference Tuesday, Mr. Bragg was given a second shot to explain what other crime Mr. Trump was supposedly covering up. The DA cited the federal cap on campaign contributions, as expected. But he also brought up “New York State election law,” which “makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means.” Mr. Bragg then mentioned “statements that were planned to be made to tax authorities.” Planned to be made?

    After dragging the country through the first indictment of a former President in U.S. history, Mr. Bragg owes the public a better explanation of his theory of the case. His unclear and evasive reply Tuesday isn’t helping his cause, and the country shouldn’t have to wait for months to find out the answer. Some news reports say Mr. Trump’s next court appearance is probably on the docket for December.

    That’s only about a month or two before the Iowa caucus is supposed to take place. What timing. Mr. Trump is being indicted for conduct that happened in 2016. Federal prosecutors already examined this activity and apparently decided to let it drop. Seven years later, after a halting local investigation, an elected Democratic DA has indicted Mr. Trump, in a case that could finally come to a resolution right in the middle of the 2024 primaries.

    The question that keeps smacking us upside the head is whether this case would have been brought against any defendant not named Donald Trump. It’s hard to avoid answering no. How it will affect Mr. Trump’s 2024 candidacy is anyone’s guess. Maybe the better question is how it will affect the public’s view of justice.

    Appeared in the April 5, 2023, print edition as 'What’s Missing in the Trump Indictment'.
     
  2. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I am guessing it’s business fraud for campaign finance crimes which upgrades a ton of misdemeanors into felonies. If Trump is found guilty, he should serve the minimum jail time.
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Had Republicans done their constitutional duties and voted to impeach him either of the times they had a chance, I do believe he wouldn’t be pursued for this crime in particular. Pardon or not, I do think he would have received more of the Nixon (let’s move on and heal) treatment.

    However the Mar a lago case I don’t think DOJ couldn’t have ignored. You can’t just blatantly steal nuclear documents and obstruct justice trying to hide them. However Trump wouldn’t be in the news because he wouldn’t matter. He wouldn’t be a threat anymore. MSNBC and CNN would seem like they were being petty coveringing it. It would be more of a TMZ story than an NBC one.

    All of this is on the Republicans who didnt impeach him when the constitution makes it clear they were supposed to in order to avoid this situation.

    We must not let Republicans in Congress off the hook during this debate. When you take your toddler over to your friends house you can’t be mad at your friend when they have to save your kid from running in the street because they refused to watch their kid.
     
    #323 dobro1229, Apr 5, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
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  4. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    What a piece of ****

     
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  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Given all of the threats that Trump has made towards the judge and prosecutor I’m wondering if an obstruction of Justice charge can be added.
     
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  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Member
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  7. across110thstreet

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    Does this force Trump to finally confirm in a public court that he had an affair with a p*rn star and paid her off to cover it up? He’s been lying publicly about this since 2016 and all he can do now is move the goal post claiming it wasn’t a crime to do so.
     
    #327 across110thstreet, Apr 5, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
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  8. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The way it was described from former assistant DA's is the charge would be incitement of violence, and would get taken up by the DA out of the Bronx or Queens most likely because Bragg would be the victim so he couldn't prosecute a case in which he was a victim.

    I see this as potentially spiraling out of control for Trump legally. If the DA out of the Bronx brought this case it wouldn't necessarily be white collar either, and there would be more precedent for holding him, and treating him more as a violent criminal.

    Trump's attorneys are idiots for letting this guy do this. This isn't impeachment and he doesn't run the DOJ while he's doing this. Sh$t's going to get real fast for him if he doesn't shut up.
     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    Trump will plead the 5th the entire time. He technically won't say anything in court unless he's dumber than we think. In public he's already basically admitted it. Or at least Rudy Guiliani (his attorney at the time) admitted it on FoxNews. Nobody on the right cares though. Obviously Melania doesn't either.
     
  10. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    why is he allowed to go out there and continue to attack the prosecutor, the judge and their families? at what point does he get held in contempt or jailed for this? he already has a history of inciting his cultish followers to violence...are we supposed to wait for one of them to do something to the judges daughter or something?
     
  11. Kim

    Kim Member

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    See my post at the end of page 16. This makes him look bad and he is bad by most standards. It's still not a felony because Cohen's conviction would go against SCOTUS precedent.
     
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  12. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    This should play in the courtroom everytime he does. "...in his own words".

     
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  13. FranchiseBlade

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    There are several possible other crimes. State election laws could be one. Lying to tax authorities seem like they would be the easiest of the possible charges to link.
     
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  14. across110thstreet

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    If nobody cares including his wife that he cheated on, why hasn’t he ever publicly admitted his affair with the prostitute p*rn star and alleged coverup?

    wHat DoEs hE hAvE to HiDe?
     
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  15. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    I've wondered if waiting to indite Trump is a political move. Time it so that Trump can win the Republican primary, but has a slate of pending legal cases when the general election happens.
     
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  16. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Remember Benghazi!!!
     
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  17. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    I think Melania keeps renegotiating her and Baron's inheritance while she feeds him McDonalds daily
     
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  18. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Trump would take a plea, if he was not running. Misdemeanor + fine + probation + no time.
     
  19. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    yeah but ... no p*rn stars ... so it was very different. amirite?
     
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  20. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    I just dropped in the thread to see the few wingnuts that aren't on my ignore list still trying to defend the Drumphster fire.
     

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