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Chapter 5: The Green Revolution Falls

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathloom, Mar 8, 2023.

  1. Losmi_34

    Losmi_34 Member

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    I wish he was more imposing, in the sense that he demands the ball and gets it when he's hot.

    You can see that he tries do defer to other guys, often camping in the corner, waiting for the pg to collapse the defense to then get moving. The problem is that the PG's he's waiting on are KPJ and Nix, who simply don't have the capacity or vision to do that consistently. I didn't watch last night's game, but I watched the game vs Cavs. He was cooking in the 3rd and when Nix subbed in, he didn't make one good pass to Green in space. You have a guy that can get you 20pt quarters in his sleep, and you put him in the corner to serve as the 4-5th option? That's insane.

    We'll hopefully see him utilised properly next year by our new coach and perhaps Harden.
     
    #281 Losmi_34, Mar 28, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  2. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    This Nathan guy discovered that when players make more shots, they score more points. Wow.
     
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  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Look at what Conley, Harden, CP3, Beverley, Haliburton, Sabonis have done for their teams. It's crazy that I have to say this but the person setting up the offense matters a lot to all the scorers on the team, especially to get them easy off ball opportunities.

    This team was neutered the moment it was obvious KPJ and Nix collectively form one of the worst playmaking units at PG that I have ever seen in NBA history.

    Wolves don't have a big enough sample size but they will be the latest example of a PG turning a team around with no extra resources, just better choices. Russell caring so much about his own image and his own shot was disrupting an offense that contains Edwards and KAT. Edwards and KAT should have been taking ALL the shots but Russell doesn't agree. Conley comes in and forces all the shots to KAT and Edwards and boom, their wins and efficiency skyrocket. This is so similar to the situation we have going on. You could have sat forever and talked about the few good things Russell does and how they need more time, but it was never going to work. You could have talked about how he was playing so well and so efficiently before being traded but it was never going to work. You could have said he can be a 6th man for them, but that was their biggest tradable contract. Russell needed to go play with someone who will put him in his place and force him to accept a role. Edwards and Towns need a Conley and Conley will make the rest of the rotation understand the correct pecking order.

    This is what Green and Jabari need in their life. I think Sengun will be able to run a lot of offense next season if we have a Kings or Nuggets-like system, he can do maybe 50-60% of the time. We need another person on a good value contract of course to run the offense 50% of the time. Every playmaking C has a PG too, we need both and we would benefit tremendously from it.

    Not worried about Jalen next season. When looking at his numbers in context of valuable information and without excuses, he once again showed he's the best scorer drafted in the past 2 drafts and he's going to be #1 again next season. The offense couldn't have been spaced worse this season if you tried. Sengun standing there and not running plays is killing spacing. Open shooters constantly being missed and shooters constantly missing shots kills spacing.

    To say a 21 year old scorer has things to work on and needs to understand the importance of defensive commitment is like saying the sky is blue. No sh*t he has to learn that stuff. So did Jordan, Kobe, Booker, Lavine, Harden, Wade in their age 20 season whichever league they were in. Saying that sh*t doesn't give you a pass to limit Green's ceiling as a future max-worthy player in the NBA.
     
    #283 Mathloom, Mar 28, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  4. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    The way Jalen can get to the FT line at will almost assures him of future 30 point seasons. Once his body fills out and he gets a better grasp on pace and tempo he will be an electric offensive player. His attention to defense will determine whether he will be an All NBA talent or simply an All Star.
     
  5. O-dawg

    O-dawg Member
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    It's funny that you mention this as I was just thinking that it's ironic that both Green and Sengun could be defined in the future not by their offensive development, but how they develop on defense.

    I mean I don't worry about either offensively as both score with ease but can they develop into good (won't have to be great with their offense) defenders?

    For Green, I think almost all the attributes are there in lateral quickness, foot speeds, and size. What he needs to work on is strength, defensive awareness, and effort. He needs to want to be a good defender every game. I say this because I've noticed that in some matchups he appears to be locked in and other nights not so much.
     
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  6. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Jalen will ALWAYS be an impactful player in the freedom of movement era. Even with terrible defense he can get hot and win games as a lethal 3 level scorer.

    Alpie is just too damn limited on defense to harbor the same type of long term confidence since he doesn't stretch a defense and his athletic ability is nowhere near Jalens. Yeah Its totally rad that Sengun can make a baby hook shot whenever he wants, but if that's your game plan and the other team is bombing away you wont win many games in the NBA. Best chance for Alpie to continue an upward trajectory would be to become a passable 3 point shooter. If he's going to be a staple in the playmaking totem then he needs to also cut down the turnovers and the tendency to be a foul machine. Im not concerned that he's a traffic cone on defense because that was the biggest concern about him coming out and while its not ideal he offers unique offensive skills to keep him on the court. I WAS expecting a better shooter though.

    In unison both of these guys work well together so there is that.
     
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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  8. Roomba

    Roomba Member

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    I...would not have expected Jalen to be up there, even with his visibly improved effort on defense recently.

    nice

    very nice
     
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  9. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Green is a good 1 v 1 defender on the perimeter because of his quickness. He struggles against players who can post him up or off ball players. Whenever we play guards like Morant or Haliburton. Jalen guards them as well as anyone in the league because he never gets beat off the dribble
     
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  10. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    Was reading Knicks game thread on him and someone made the observation that Jalen Green doesn't actually get to the rim a lot, which to me is actually kind of true. So many times he tries to drive but he gets stopped and has to pass out or settle for a jumper. This is in contrast to Ja Morant who lives at the rim and can get there whenever he wants to. Perhaps it has to do with the Rockets limited spacing, but something to think about because he is known as being quick. If he can't get to the rim like that, he will need to become a much better shooter.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    That's the opposite impression I get from watching Green and pretty much anyone else especially opposing team broadcasters many of whom commented on his effortless ability to go to the rim.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I think it's just a response to Twitter people saying that it must have been an inefficient 30 or 40 pts. Some shot cuckers will get to their 30 going 11-26. Green rarely has those type of 30 and 40 pt games.

    When he scores 30-40 pts it's usually within the flow of the offense or whatever "offense" we have.
     
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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    It is not effortless when his FTA numbers are so out of this planet one game and the other game he is like only having 2 or 3.

    A roller coaster ride one of a kind.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Eh that is more about how inconsistent the refs are game to game in the NBA.
     
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  15. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    I'm getting tired of this book. We're still stuck in the preface page.
     
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  16. Rocketeer

    Rocketeer Member

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    When he becomes a consistent shooter (hopefully with a better system), getting to the rim regularly will be no problem. Some teams are giving him that space, and somehow is still able to go around them sometimes.
     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Not only that. When Jalen has the ball at the perimeter there is almost always a primary defender for him along with two other defenders between him and the rim guarding Green's driving lanes while sagging off their specific defensive assignments.

    Green doesn't get many opportunities to play in a 5 out spaced offense where he just needs to beat one defender to get a clean look at the rim. He has to usually beat 2-3 defenders to get a attempt up at the rim.
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Would be a dream. Frankly if Sengun himself is running the offense and plays PnR with Jalen, then even 4-out would be devastating to defenders. This season we were 4-out but 3 of those 4 guys are shooting below expectations so teams are giving us open looks at the 3pt line and packing the path to the rim. Timing is everything too, because our PG likes to eat a lot of clock, we are facing set defenses far more often than we should and they can close out far better in that situation.

    Dream scenario is we get a PG who can 3&D&pass, Sengun improves to 36% on 1 3PA and Jabari's shot sticks around. Teams would seriously suffer if we were treating Green like DeAron Fox on offense. Green has to continue to gradually improve at lobs and feeding corner 3pt shooters though.

    Sengun
    Jabari
    Tari
    Green
    Reaves?

    Green could put up an efficient 25ppg next season on that team if he adds as much muscle as last summer. If Jabari surprises us with adding muscle, I feel like we might be better off having him protect the rim next season. Maybe let Sengun chase 4's, if he needs time to develop then he can also protect the rim with the bench unit. A defensively developing starting 5 is catastrophic, a defensively developing 4 is hideable, a defensively developing backup 5 is also hideable.

    At 25ppg if he can muster up some below average defense Green would already be worth $20m+ at age 21. I really love our core man, it's underrated because our core contains more defenders than you would expect from a young group but we have a treasure trove of like 4 potentially good young two-way players hidden in there. Tari, Jabari, Garuba and Christopher will be worth a lot if we keep sharpening their offensive skills and allow them to gain experience defensively.
     
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  19. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    Hasn’t been himself the last two games
     
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  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Yeah. Very passive. His handle seems less confident the past couple of games. Passing out a lot after giving up on a dribble moves too soon.
    Similar stuff you saw early in his rookie year. Maybe he's hurt a bit but it's weird.
     
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