The only person to short more than Jim Cramer is you. Nobody told you to start using bitcoin. I'm not sure why you are in this thread other than being contrary. Go buy some tesla stock.
NIce strawman. Using dollars and CC isn't ignorant. Your lazy, uninformed posts are. You might be tipping your hand a bit trying to create this whole 'elitist' narrative. As for practical uses, they've all been laid bare time and time again in this thread. Not much we can do for you if you don't understand the importance of it. I think this regularly. Would make the cost of goods and services cheaper. Once again, perhaps second to only disease, currency debasement/manipulation has caused the most human suffering in history. The Average Joe benefits from BTC more than anyone. If you're looking for a line of argument with some leverage, this ain't it.
Bitcorn is not a currency and hasn't functioned as a currency. At minimum, it's volatility would disqualify subsistence workers from handling it (assuming Crypto bros parachute boxes of mobile crypto phones to every slum and village). What's happened/happening in Ecuador is a disgrace and shares similar sociopathy to folks peddling American style Democracy to Iraq or Communism to agrarian Russia and China. Bit disheartening how this movement has shaped up but more a unique symptom to funny money running rampant in our current Gilded Age.
What fun are yall having with BTC that I am not having with my peasant currency? Let me get some BTC and a Tesla so I can achieve max happiness. Yall need to go outside and breathe some fresh air.
This is the question that still needs to be answered. As a currency, what benefit does bitcoin provide to a consumer over cash or credit cards? This seems like a weird statement for a thread titled "What do people think about Bitcoin?"
It’s just amusing you are already crowning the BTC the superior currency. Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse. On paper…. Give me your best CURRENT use case. Where is BTC being used now? Interesting it stops in 2021… it’s actually “barely functioning small countries” Kudos! Fair…. But still seems like a bunch of thoughts and prayers.
The first few pages from 2014 are interesting..... Who cares if it deflates? Like seriously? I'm just having trouble imagining the world/economy imagining these pro BTC/anti central banks folks are envisioning. Like if there's a major natural disaster, how will BTC respond to financing the clean up and rebuild? Seems like it will be more inflationary and deflationary than we already have.
Interesting thread excavation. Thoughts and opinions can change over time. Im not sure what a major disaster has to do with this. Perhaps you can expand on that thought. bitcoin isn't going to clean up a major disaster anymore than a piece of shiny soft metal or piece of paper. Bitcoin isn't a financing tool.
True, thoughts and opinions can change. I was just curious and went back to the first 5 pages, not much of an excavation. BTC is supposed to be a currency so how would it respond if there a disaster that created supply chain issues and required paying a lot of folks to help clean up and rebuild? Or even something like a drought causing a shortage in wheat? Just seems like gold 2.0. Out of curiosity, is it the concept of debt that is the main issue or the involvement of government/centralized power/authority? Or is it the marriage between the two?
In the bitcoin community, there is a wide range of thoughts and beliefs. This topic goes deeper into the rabbit hole; what is money? There is no universal accepted definition that clearly defines all asset classes as money or not. Not all in the bitcoin community accept that bitcoin has a long term ability to be a currency. El Salvador is one of the closest and even then its not wildly popular. If bitcoin has to be closely associated to another asset class, gold would be it. I think its a poor comparison but its one of the closest. Personally I believe bitcoin has the potential to create an entirely new way of storing and transferring wealth. This isn't uncommon as technological advances have always created new and interesting ways to transact. For example, electronic transfers and payment completely destroyed gold's ability to be used as a reserve currency. Durable paper and printing birthed the wide spread use of fiat. There are those who believe bitcoin will end the need for debt. This makes no sense, TBH. Society needs credit to expand the economy so therefore we will always need a central power to ebb and flow economic needs. The issue we have run into is that all monetary instruments have funneled into a fiat system that has no true wealth or value. We are now in one big ponzi. What society needs (and by society, I mean everyone in the world) and doesn't currently exist is a place to park the fruits of their labor into a place that will hold its value over time. It doesnt need and shouldn't chase yields. Currency is inflated away (obviously), some faster than others, forcing savers to either spend or 'invest' into some form of risk. Gold and silver are some of the safest, but its difficult to buy and store and ripe for confiscation. A bitcoin standard can exist in conjunction with a credit system. If bitcoin eventually gets to 10 trillion USD market cap (in todays term), then it becomes more of a store of value. If it hits 50 or so trillion, it will become more like a bond.
The volatility problem won't be with us forever. As time passes and the market cap grows volatility will subside. The other problem, ease of use/common acceptance, is largely tied to this as well. It's a bit of a circular problem, with one issue feeding the other, however it's quite obvious that all of these are trending in the direction of more bitcoin adoption, not less. The fun of knowing I'm securing my wealth against the future. You are a very angry person. Raging against BTC seems like a counterproductive hobby. Perhaps your time might be spent better elsewhere. Glad you're amused I guess. It's pretty simple. I look at the qualities money is supposed to have and weight BTC vs. FIAT vs. Other against each other. Even in the categories where BTC falls behind, I do not see them as permanent or irreconcilable problems, but rather time-bound with inevitable solutions. Based on the intrinsic properties of BTC, there is no doubt in my mind it will eventually become the preferred unit of account globally. Monetary systems tend to one, and BTC is objectively the best monetary system on offer. You keep saying this, but it simply isn't true. BTC's currency qualities are already on display and in practice across the world. Its best use case is and will always be as a store of value. The common adoption of it as currency (or source of funding) is not something I am concerned with, because of the reasons I outlined above, I see it as an inevitability. People keep making these snide remarks and yet every year there are new milestones hit and landmark adoption breakthroughs. It's one thing to ignore/eschew BTC, but continually lining up to get more egg on your face just seems odd. Third parties and clearinghouses that facilitate transactions always take their cut at every stop along the way of the supply chain, right up until the point of sale. Additionally, the time needed to move funds around the world costs all of us in one way or another (time effectively being money). A world run on BTC would not be a world without credit. The market for that will always exist. In a BTC world, however, credit would operate more prudently. And yes, deflation is not a problem in a BTC world, because BTC is infinitely divisible. Ideally the government would have the BTC reserves to pay for such things. If not, they finance the operation and send the bill out to the taxpayers the following year. Like I said, credit/lending will still exist. A bit of both. Having unelected bureaucrats in charge of our money sucks. I think you can draw a straight line between that fact and the fact our government has basically spent itself into oblivion. It feels like we're sitting on a powder keg of financial insolvency and instability, and the only thing keeping it from exploding is the fact that if it explodes, the rest of the world is going to go down with us.
Honestly @DonnyMost, I don't see btc ready for being a currency any time soon, more like promises to a vaporware project or a massively hyped videogame Kickstarter, Can't handle concurrent transactions compared to centralized bank driven fiat? Lightning Network! It.SOLVES. IT. SOON. Privacy and indecency issues on the block chain that you don't have to deal with by handling cash? Uhh, we're purists so we likely won't "fix" it, but we can promise more abstractions like uh...LIGHTNING NETWORK! that promises to resolve your concerns...still a currency You can tell by the narrative shifts since inception of how tortured BTCs journey to find value that it's believers aren't fully committed to the notion it's a currency. Asset class...new fangled digital investment with infinite potential ready to be mined (cs professors smirk)...a "store of value"? And a major problem is that cash/dollars have itself become distorted to the point where Fed governors can't even define or track money anymore. They recognized the problem of eurodollars in the 70s where european banks started "printing" usd in order to integrate money from states like USSR and Iran. Is "money" cash on hand, credit on a bank ledger, or debt in the form of IOUs to be paid off with interest? Well, the Treasury dept and domestic banks it tracked technically controlled the first one (M1 cash). The latter two over scale and time likely caused the great inflation spike of the 70s because of all this new money credit sloshing indistinguishably around the world. You have soviet oil to offload. You or the buyer find a bank to store that transaction on their system not because dollars are the "petrol standard" but because rubles suck buying sushi or big macs, Or you jave blood diamonds you need to anonymously sell into the greater market, maybe a bank will do or a fence that charges commission. No dollars needed. No bank vaults to store everything like Breaking Bad (Lydia's bank kind of describes this scenario but more on the level without the illegal laundering part. Forget the car wash, the bank handled all of it). All on their ledger... So it's doubtful BTC resolve this or decades of financial evolution since. The power scale in complexity and use is different. It presupposes a top down solution when global banks mostly figured out their ways of working from ground up (for better or worse and mostly without central bank meddling we now know and love). For one thing, it seems like they and the alt coin industry have been reverse engineering the current financial system (you know, the one we all worshipped in the 90s only to ****ing loathe it 2008...) to handle things only for it to implode in spectacular fashsion. The Celsius carry trade. Any BTC uhh "bank". How are banks supposed to work with BTC? Well you don't have to know how, dummy. Self custody...NYKNYC... you gotta be ready like a prepper in case The Man wants to take your digital money. How is that sounding like a currency... it sounds more like post-Depression Gold? It is "like Gold" except governments never promised redemptions of their money into crypto. In other words, its still a matter of faith but in software that ages and obselecces over digital time and by its own rules doesn't even have future funding to pay for its own improvements. At least gold is hella nice to look at and wearing lots of it increases your chances of getting laid or getting jumped. Flash drives of Fat Stacks...not so sexy. So its more like "real estate" that you cant live in, build upon, or use in the slightest except for the afformentiomed graffiti/defacement during btc transactions? No!! Definitely.Not.Speculative.At.All!! How dare you to mention the S-word! It would be improper to bet on mainstream adoption while massively collecting a finite and mostly illiquid supply on the side!! We gave you SOLUTIONS!! 21 million btc is more than enough when you divide one into 100,000,000 itty little bits. While I hold on my 10 or so BTC, that promised day where everyone uses sats to buy bread with make me smarter than those boomer gold bugs! Ahem...holding on a small percentage of your wealth wouldn't hurt, but wholly believing all the these promises is likely more unhealthy than its currently worth.
No one's raging man. This is not that serious. Chill out. Until any new concepts replaces something existing as MORE or equally convenient, mass adoption is not happening. You can rage all you want about BTC but until your average person can use it without hassle, it's all just thoughts and prayers. in the meantime, enjoy storing your wealth. clearly by now someone would have seen all these benefits and taken advantage. we saw how it went with el salvador.
Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia Tech chief says the development of chatbots is a more worthwhile use of processing power than crypto mining The US chip-maker Nvidia has said cryptocurrencies do not “bring anything useful for society” despite the company’s powerful processors selling in huge quantities to the sector. Michael Kagan, its chief technology officer, said other uses of processing power such as the artificial intelligence chatbot ChatGPT were more worthwhile than mining crypto. Nvidia never embraced the crypto community with open arms. In 2021, the company even released software that artificially constrained the ability to use its graphics cards from being used to mine the popular Ethereum cryptocurrency, in an effort to ensure supply went to its preferred customers instead, who include AI researchers and gamers. Kagan said the decision was justified because of the limited value of using processing power to mine cryptocurrencies. The first version ChatGPT was trained on a supercomputer made up of about 10,000 Nvidia graphics cards. “All this crypto stuff, it needed parallel processing, and [Nvidia] is the best, so people just programmed it to use for this purpose. They bought a lot of stuff, and then eventually it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society. AI does,” Kagan told the Guardian. “With ChatGPT, everybody can now create his own machine, his own programme: you just tell it what to do, and it will. And if it doesn’t work the way you want it to, you tell it ‘I want something different’.” Crypto, by contrast, was more like high-frequency trading, an industry that had led to a lot of business for Mellanox, the company Kagan founded before it was acquired by Nvidia. “We were heavily involved in also trading: people on Wall Street were buying our stuff to save a few nanoseconds on the wire, the banks were doing crazy things like pulling the fibres under the Hudson taut to make them a little bit shorter, to save a few nanoseconds between their datacentre and the stock exchange,” he said. “I never believed that [crypto] is something that will do something good for humanity. You know, people do crazy things, but they buy your stuff, you sell them stuff. But you don’t redirect the company to support whatever it is.” Originally best known for producing powerful graphics cards for PC gamers to play the latest games, it was almost by chance that Nvidia’s products took their place at the heart of the AI boom. The computationally intensive work of training a new AI system, which can take millions of billions of dollars-worth of computing power, happened to work significantly faster on the types of simple yet powerful processors that had been adopted by gamers. Two weeks ago, Microsoft said it had bought tens of thousands of Nvidia’s AI-focused processors, the A100 GPU, in order to power the workload of OpenAI. Nvidia has sold 20,000 H100s, the successor to that chip, to Amazon for its cloud computing AWS service, and another 16,000 have been sold to Oracle. Nvidia also rents access to the chips directly, with its DGX cloud service starting at just under $37,000 (£30,250) a month for just eight H100s wired together in a “cluster”. Speaking at the company’s annual conference last week, Jensen Huang, Nvidia’s chief executive, described the company as the engine behind “the iPhone moment of AI”, and said the “generative AI” his firm powers would “reinvent nearly every industry”. Last year, Nvidia’s $40bn takeover of the UK-based tech firm Arm collapsed because of regulatory difficulties. https://www.theguardian.com/technol...iety-nvidia-chatbots-processing-crypto-mining
It depends on what "soon" is to you. I think expecting BTC to become the world's currency in under 15 years is a bit fool hardy. I'm not really concerned with the timeline. All I know is that by objective measures, BTC is the best monetary system on offer (for all reasons previously stated), and that eventually those things rise to the top. I dare not venture a guess as to when, but there is no doubt in my mind about if. We didn't flip from gold/precious metals to paper overnight, either. Comparing BTC to kickstarter is pretty silly, TBH. Most other cryptos function that way, but not BTC (premines, hypetrains, big loud CEOs/founders, etc). And it seems unwise to bet against all the second layer technologies that will improve BTC. Narrative shifts? Tortured journey? What do you even mean by this? The purpose and function of Bitcoin has not changed since inception, but its value sure has. You expect the price to be stable already? Depends on what you mean by "resolve". Bitcoin isn't supposed to undo anyone else's mistakes or malfeasance, those bills will have to be paid. It's "sounding like a currency" for all the reasons I've already laid out. What it's not sounding like is FIAT. You are conflating the two. Otherwise, are you trying to make another 'intrinsic value' argument? We've already tread that ground. What in the world are you even trying to say here? Are you trying to have an argument with a strawman in real time or something? What about speculation? What 'promises'? TBH it's been difficult to piece together a cohesive argument from this string of internal conversations you've put together here.
