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Ukraine

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I love that he's annoying the **** outta you. Now you know how other people feel when you continuously spam this section with your nonsensical drivel.
     
    astros123, FrontRunner and Ubiquitin like this.
  2. FrontRunner

    FrontRunner Member

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    He's practically RUINED this section as far as I'm concerned.
     
  3. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Can you point to me other monsters who have stolen over 20k kids under the age of 10? Low ball figures guess that he's taken a minimum of 10-20k kids...
     
  4. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Non contributing members
    Can’t identify as contributing members
     
  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Xi, Putin, Khamanei, Assad, and Kim Jung-un are collectively doing awful things to their own populations or their neighbors.
    Tigray War caused upwards to 800,000 deaths over two years 2020-2022.
    Yemen Civil War has caused upwards to 370,000 deaths including 85,000 children.
     
  6. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Sigh you have a point. What a sad world we live in where folks are still murdering others by the mass.
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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  8. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Hard to say, which I assume is why the put the focus on this. Killing a hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and if you include Syria with our destruction of Iraq contribution to pretty clearly leading to ISIS maybe a million or so excess deaths. I assume a lot were kids. Horrible to say, but what is worse?. For traditional conservative "right to lifers" I like to note that undoubtedly some of the women were carrying fetuses.
     
  9. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    I've never said bush isn't a war criminal? Obama drone strike policy was God awful as well.



    Biden has literally almost ended all drone strikes and has ended the war in Afghanistan yet you have brainwashed libertarians and gop who claim Biden is a war monger for standing up to Russia.

    Biden is also signing the repeal of the Iraq war authorization which trump refused to sign but his bootlickers will claim he's anti war. No he's just pro putin
     
  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    The war on Iraq was a central point in our history that changed everything for the worse. It puts in question whether or not the US should even be allowed to be a NATO country since we violated international law in invading a sovereign country with false pretense.

    That being said I’m not understanding the point being made. Are you saying that this means the world and the US should turn a blind eye to what Putin is doing?

    Because our country committed genocide against native Americans did that mean that the US shouldn’t have entered WW2 to fight Hitler? In this case we aren’t even fighting Hitler. We are simply giving Poland what they need to fight off the Blitzkrieg.

    Iraq is a dark stain on our country. What Bush did to lie us into a war that did so much damage is unspeakable and a war crime. But moving forward we don’t have that luxury to say “well because we screwed up before, we are just gonna sit out in supporting freedom and democracy moving forward.”
     
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  11. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Somehow playing this game means you are also pro Russia somehow
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Yeah, it is just ancient ancient history what Bush did about 20 years ago and is the same as what was done largely two to three centuries ago with the Native Americans. Hey why not amend the ICC ruling to include Bush as well as Putin. The United States refuses to accept the jurisdiction of the Court and so I assume does Russia. At this point since the action by the ICC re Putin is largely symbolic it is important that it not be greatly weakened by not including Bush II and Cheney.
     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Ignore the old boomer and move on
     
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  14. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well I guess in an ideal world the ICC would say: "We are starting anew with no longer finding major countries and leaders not indictable for war crimes." It is a process no longer limited to poor struggling Third World dictatorships. Russia is the first in our new policy (we have to start the clock sometime!). We are hereby putting the USA and NATO as well as all countires in the world, whether they abstain from being signatories to the ICC (like the USA)a warning that we have given them their last free pass, Iraq, Lybya etc. etc. This of course is at present almost laughable for probably 80% of the American and principle Western Euro countries and US allies as they believe there is a near absolute difference between our "war crimes " and that of countries we approve of at a given time.
     
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  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Since we're not signatories, we don't really have legit input on what the ICC does. If they did indict Bush for Iraq, I'd think it was perhaps justified. And since we're not signatories, it'd probably be more appropriate for Congress to come up with their own censure or belated impeachment of George Bush for leading us so very badly. At the same time, I don't think an indictment of just our leader sufficiently addresses the war crime we committed as a nation, with wide Congressional and popular support, fought with many soldiers and administrators, supported by the business community and other nations, and over a few presidencies. A democracy choosing to fight an unjust war is a different sort of thing than a dictatorship choosing to do so (though more than just Putin are guilty in this current war crime). What I would prefer we do with our Iraq War legacy is our own sort of truth and reconciliation process where we tell the whole truth of what we did, acknowledge that it was wrong and apologize, and maybe even negotiate some kind of compensation to Iraq for the damage we caused (which recognizes, on the one hand, some of the benefit of ousting Saddam and our subsequent investments in their reconstruction and new government, but also the destruction, death, displacement, instability, impoverishment, civil war, etc.).
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

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    If there's a way to ratify an agreement with Congress instead of having to first pass through the administration, I do think it would then be possibly achievable to set new standards with the US' involvement. The program is the executive branch not wanting to open themselves up to that level of scrutiny when their term is only 4 years, and much of the military strategies were put in place by the admin before, and the one before that.

    Ex: The war in Afghanistan. If the ICC found out that the war was illegal, would both Trump, Biden, and Obama be guilty because the war continued on their watch?

    Probably not in the case of Biden at the very least but an executive branch still wont want to take that kind of chance anyways. It would be Congress that is supposed to be the check on the executive branch where an organization like the ICC should be able to work with, but they have no way to do so.

    Long story short, I don't know how we best deal with reckoning for Iraq. There was no justice served. W is off painting pictures, and enjoying life on the Ranch. Dick Cheney is off doing whatever Dick Cheney does. What I do know though is that having a nationalistic policy of turning a blind eye towards Russia and Putin is a mistake.
     
  17. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well hardly a blind eye. We will probably wind up with hundreds of billions spent (and hundreds of billions of arms industry profits) with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians (primarily) killed with millions of refugees all over a few miles of border territories. Biden who. is better than the Republicans, if he lives, will win as a successful War President, as he know if he negotiates he lose, so until Nov 2024 there will be nothing but stories of sheer Russian evil and rosy stories about Ukrainian military success until surprisingly it will wind down with pretty much what could have been negotiated right before the war or after the first month or so when it was obvious Kyiv would not fall. America the virtuous with no real skin in the game will learn nothing.
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
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    did not have @glynch RDS intersectionality on my '23 bingo card.
     
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  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Sad that Commodore as a Republican has to post this, but it the President was Republican Commodore would be cheering not negotiating until total victory.
     

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