KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

Add a GM with intentions of tanking and that’s a perfect way to describe the situation

People air balling layups and 5 ft shots didn’t help

 

Here are the guys averaging over 18/5/5 for the season. KPJ is really averaging closer to 19/6/6, but I used 18/5/5 to be inclusive. Aside from Cade, KPJ is the youngest guy on this list.

 

Thats all fair. Nobody is trying to change your mind as you are 100% entitled to your opinion as a fan. I just find it curious that when KPJ does have a good game then all of a sudden he's "ok" and the vitriol shifts to Silas and poor KPJ being played out of position. Some say he'd be in jail. Others that he wont last 2-3 years in the NBA. Its like you guys are trying to outdo each other with ridiculous takes.

You can grit your teeth and clench your fists all you want, but YES it really does boil down to making shots (and defending where this team as a whole is terrible as well). Object of the sport is to put the ball in the hoop and prevent the other team from doing so. If you're good at making 3's then you have a leg up on everyone else.

Nobody is "creating an offense" around KPJ though why the strawman? Even funnier to keep laying the TEAMS deficiencies at his feet! Most teams in the NBA all play the same. 3's and layups. Its a proven formula. Some teams are able to generate the offense via ball movement and team concepts and others have an iso monster that does it for their team. Houston has neither at the current, but if they would just make the league average in shots they would not lose as much - its not really that complicated.

 

Has anyone mentioned that we have posters from around the world who mention getting rid of Porter in nearly every GARM post they make?

 

I believe that if KPJ can have performance like the Lakers game consistently, he can roleplay all he wants at pg. In order to make up for his lack of play making/pg skillset, he needs to compensate what he lacks with efficient scoring.

There are a lot of folks who just want kpj gone, im more just wanting him off the pg position and seeing if he can thrive as the sixth man/different role on the team. KPJ has talent, he just isnt it at pg.

 

There’s different ways to look at that list. It’s nice to be there with the other guys on that list who are mostly stars of various degree but….

Opportunity is likely the biggest factor in hitting those arbitrary benchmarks.

Do you play 30+ minutes a game, do you have the ball in your hands 5+ minutes per game and do you shoot it 14+ times per game. If so, you are pretty much at a baseline of ~18/5/5.

KPJ is in one of the very few(maybe only) situations in the league where he would be afforded the opportunity he is getting. Doing what he is doing(statistically 19/6/6) is something but at the same time when considering efficiency, the team results and the rare opportunity(minutes, shots and time of possession) he’s been afforded on a terrible team it’s not exactly super promising.

Even keeping his age in mind….his efficiency this season is up a bit but it’s still below the level necessary to continue to get the opportunity he has gotten. I’d imagine he’s at or near the bottom of that list if sorted by efficiency. You can point to age and or level of teammates as to reasons why the efficiency is lower than you would want but then you would have to also acknowledge on a better team his opportunity to play, shoot and have the ball likely decreases significantly which in turn likely decreases those per game numbers.

All in all KPJ has improved this year(not nearly as much as I believe you would want to see to where it would give you a lot of hope for his future to be a high impact guy )and has probably been our clear cut 2nd best overall player.

 

I figure he is a young talent but the Rockets are in no position to experiment with a controversial player like him because there are so many construction sites and holes in the game.

Furthermore he is missing like 20 games a season for a young player.

This incentive based contract said it all, we shouldn't be doing this.

 

I think the reason

If that's the baseline, why does Jalen Green fall short, he shoots more and has the highest usage on the team....I thought it was supposed to be automatic.


People bend over backwards trying to downplay KPJ's performance... but they end up accidentally throwing shade at most of the league.

 

His efficiency is fine for his age. It's better than a bunch of young guys given similar opportunities, such as LaMelo Ball, Giddey, Barnes, Barrett, Barnes, Ivey, and Cunningham.

 

You are obsessed with KPJ vs Green. I’m talking about KPJ vs the other players on that list. Or the bigger reasons why players find their way on a list with those specific requirements…minutes, time of possession and shots and why just because you are afforded that opportunity and achieve those “baseline” numbers doesn’t automatically equate to an impressive season.

There was zero coincidence that list was sorted by assists instead of points or rebounds. It’s the one number that places KPJ somewhere in the middle and not the bottom of that group.

If you have a strong argument that my claim isn’t accurate I’m all ears. If efficiency and winning games is out the window and a player is afforded the minutes, the shots and the time with the ball in your hands 99% of the time there is a baseline of points/assists/rebounds you will accrue. KPJ is hugging the bottom of most of those baseline stats of that group and I think it’s pretty clear that KPJ would not be afforded the same opportunity he has in Houston almost anywhere else in the league.

Green not reaching those baseline per game stats(with close to the 3 variables I laid out, but technically falls short on the t.o.p.)says absolutely zero about Porter and who he is as a player in the league currently or what he may become in the future. 0%, nada, nothing.

 

Yes, he's near the bottom of a list that contains most of the best players in the league. He'd also be second to the top if I arranged by age, and the only younger guy (Cade) has a below .5 TS%, way worse than KPJ.

Again, it's easy to spew arbitrary, ambiguous assertions like, "A ton of players would average X if given Y opportunities." But, as I showed, averaging better than 18/5/5 with a better than .55 TS% is terrific and rare for a player under 23 years old, and you can't seem to provide a good counter-example.

Here's the fact -- had the Rocket's drafted KPJ with a FRP, most would be lauding him as part of our core.

 

I'm pointing out the double standard and that claims that KPJ's performance is too be expected as a baseline for anyone who has the ball a lot and that shots a lot is completely wrong.

If anyone else on the Rockets was held to the standard KPJ is by his detractors, we'd be looking to cut the entire team.

 

It’s not arbitrary or ambiguous. Name one player in the nba who plays 30+ minutes per game, shoots 14+ shots per game and has the ball in their hands 5+ minutes per game who does not average ~18/5/5. My search brought back zero players. Maybe I’m wrong.

Then think about the number of teams in the NBA who would gladly afford KPJ that same level of opportunity. Probably just Houston and maybe San Antonio. And without that opportunity he wouldn’t be hitting those benchmarks.

Like I said it’s not nothing that he is averaging what he is averaging. He has improved this year and has been what I believe to be our 2nd best player. but I think the biggest reason he finds his name on that list you posted is that he is in a super rare situation where efficiency and winning doesn’t matter and he gets about as much volume as he can handle.

 

Search stats.nba.com for players who play 30+ minutes per game, shoot 14+ times per game and have the ball in their hands 5+ minutes per game and list the players who do NOT average ~18/5/5. I have been on my phone so I can’t be 1000% positive but my search found 0 players so far. Which would point to yes there is a baseline of production when given those three levels of opportunity.

 

You picked 5 because Jalen Green is at 4.8 and he's nowhere close. If he had the ball 12 seconds more per game he'd still be nowhere close.

 

Yes Jalen Green is one player who almost fits the opportunity criteria who doesn’t reach the baseline stats. One guy. Jalen Green is also not currently a good nba player. Porter being better than Jalen Green currently doesn’t change anything about what I said about Porter.

Both of those two are getting opportunities they wouldn’t get almost anywhere else.

 

TOP is a meaningless stat in this context. Does statmuse even track individual TOP? However, how about this -- KPJ averages 17.75 possessions per game this season. Here are guys who average more than 17 possessions per game, more than 14 shots per game, and less than 5 assists per game:



Less than 5 rebounds per game:


Again, don't forget that KPJ is averaging closer to 19/6/6 than 18/5/5, but you get my point.

 

The issue is that you are suggesting a causal link between those 3 criteria and those stats that doesn't exist. The players who happen to meet all 3 also happen to be the best players in the league and that's why they have the stats.

You could take a lesser player and cause them to meet all 3 criteria and they'd likely fall well short of those stats.

I pointed out how if Jalen had the ball for 12 more seconds a game he'd met the criteria but his stats would be well short but let's use a more extreme example. If Nix had the ball 5 minutes a game, took 14 shots per game and played 30 minutes per game does he even come close? Obviously not.

 

How is time of possession irrelevant? When you have the ball a lot it almost always means you are tasked with play making responsibilities on your team. Which even if you aren’t a great playmaker will lead to a baseline level of assists. There is only 1 player in the nba who has the ball at least 5 minutes per game who doesn’t average 5 assists. Anfernee Simmons. He has the ball 5.4 minutes per game and averages 4.1 assists. KPJ has the ball 6.8 minutes per game with 5.9 assists per game.

 

Wait a minute, I thought you said 18/5/5 is a baseline?? You're telling me Simons -- who just got a big contract and is considered part of Portland's core -- is averaging LESS than 5 assists per game and WAY LESS than 5 rebounds per game despite getting a ton of minutes and possessions??

Looks like you just proved your own assertion wrong.

And yes, TOP is meaningless. That is skewed towards players who bring up the ball. All that matters is overall possessions, since, I don't know if you know this, but you have an opportunity to score or assist during a possession.